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Post by matureleft on Feb 13, 2023 16:27:34 GMT
If he seriously thinks Kier Starmer is going to end culture war he needs his head checking. It is a serious issue but labour have been guilty of engaging in culture wars as much as the tories. While I wouldn’t claim that Labour has been entirely absent from these trenches I think they’ve been pretty quiet as an official opposition. You may be attributing more general Left or backbench Labour activity to the party? His remarks seem fair about Tory tactics - talk up the culture war to drown out more awkward stuff.
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Post by carolus on Feb 13, 2023 16:43:23 GMT
Mid Devon, Cranmore. Chris Daw, Conservative to Ungrouped.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 13, 2023 16:50:15 GMT
He's chair of Stonewall, so his issue isn't with the fighting of culture wars obviously, but which side they're on Some people actively engaged in the culture wars manage to convince themselves that only the other side is a combatant. On both sides. The trans issue is on the worst examples. One 'side' thinks it is fighting a war. The other 'side' thinks it is part of the long, slow, struggle for acceptance by a marginalised group. This is one reason this 'side' tends to succeed in the end.
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Post by aargauer on Feb 13, 2023 18:26:36 GMT
Some people actively engaged in the culture wars manage to convince themselves that only the other side is a combatant. On both sides. The trans issue is on the worst examples. One 'side' thinks it is fighting a war. The other 'side' thinks it is part of the long, slow, struggle for acceptance by a marginalised group. This is one reason this 'side' tends to succeed in the end. Sure. The equal rights stuff I can accept. The stuff like trying to defend biologically male sex offenders (who are taking advantage of the system) in womens prisons, or defending trans women taking part in women's sport is culture war material. Neither of which helps normal transgender people. Nicola Sturgeon was made to look ridiculous on this topic.
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on Feb 13, 2023 20:29:35 GMT
Still not showing on the council website - has it indeed actually happened?
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Post by lackeroftalent on Feb 13, 2023 20:58:12 GMT
Appears not. No announcement, no further news from anyone. Watching Alex Stevenson's facebook page for the announcement.
Not a great look when all these councillors are up for re-election in May.
If they expect to win as Reform candidates they need to get on it. Maybe some of the still Conservative councillors have got cold feet?
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Post by grahammurray on Feb 13, 2023 21:08:39 GMT
Still not showing on the council website - has it indeed actually happened? It does say former Conservative coucillors.
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Post by lackeroftalent on Feb 13, 2023 21:24:53 GMT
Still not showing on the council website - has it indeed actually happened? It does say former Conservative coucillors. Former as in Independents who were elected as Conservatives - Alex Stevenson, Sheena Trower and Phil Rose. Several other names are circulating who are all still listed as Conservative.
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Post by ibfc on Feb 14, 2023 7:34:59 GMT
Some people actively engaged in the culture wars manage to convince themselves that only the other side is a combatant. On both sides. The trans issue is on the worst examples. One 'side' thinks it is fighting a war. The other 'side' thinks it is part of the long, slow, struggle for acceptance by a marginalised group. This is one reason this 'side' tends to succeed in the end. You are fighting a war while I am engaged in a special operation.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 14, 2023 10:25:43 GMT
One 'side' thinks it is fighting a war. The other 'side' thinks it is part of the long, slow, struggle for acceptance by a marginalised group. This is one reason this 'side' tends to succeed in the end. Sure. The equal rights stuff I can accept. The stuff like trying to defend biologically male sex offenders (who are taking advantage of the system) in womens prisons, or defending trans women taking part in women's sport is culture war material. Neither of which helps normal transgender people. Nicola Sturgeon was made to look ridiculous on this topic. Keir Starmer, on the other hand, has not actually taken either of those positions, so I think the idea that he is engaged in a culture war may owe more to your imagination than reality.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 14, 2023 11:23:37 GMT
Yes, whilst Labour is generally on one "side" in the culture wars they aren't currently making this a major part of their identity. That is surely the difference.
(it was truer during the Corbyn years, but even then far from uniformly so)
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iang
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Post by iang on Feb 14, 2023 12:34:27 GMT
Indeed, the main activity I've seen on Twitter in the last few days in relation to this has been criticising Starmer for NOT being committed enough to "culture wars" etc
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Feb 14, 2023 12:44:56 GMT
Indeed, the main activity I've seen on Twitter in the last few days in relation to this has been criticising Starmer for NOT being committed enough to "culture wars" etc The thing with Starmer/Labour is that they occasionally come out with a stupid answer/non-answer on a culture wars topic (“do women have penises”) and therefore look ultra woke to those who think they are, but then they refuse to actually properly engage in the culture wars and advocate for the associated positions which means they are not viewed as allies by the ‘ultra woke’ activists. Not the worst position to be in electorally (that would be actually turning into the latter), but the fence sitting does let their opponents portray them as more ‘woke’ than they want to be seen as (however much that matters in the grand scheme of things).
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Feb 15, 2023 3:34:33 GMT
As mentioned on the Portsmouth thread: Kirsty Mellor, Charles Dickens, Portsmouth, Labour to Independent. She is the partner (and ward colleague) of expelled Labour councillor Cal Corkery.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 15, 2023 13:41:02 GMT
Lee Anderson has now said culture wars are the way for the Tories to win the next election.....
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Post by aargauer on Feb 15, 2023 14:21:56 GMT
Lee Anderson has now said culture wars are the way for the Tories to win the next election..... You can take him back now. How much do we have to pay you.
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Tony Otim
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Post by Tony Otim on Feb 15, 2023 14:36:05 GMT
Lee Anderson has now said culture wars are the way for the Tories to win the next election..... You can take him back now. How much do we have to pay you. I'm not sure even the PM has that much money
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Post by aargauer on Feb 15, 2023 14:48:56 GMT
You can take him back now. How much do we have to pay you. I'm not sure even the PM has that much money My experience of defectors from labour is that they largely go straight to the right of the party. We had one in Wandsworth who went all Breitbart (although to be fair, he settled down to a more normal tory position in time and then re-re(re)invented himself as an old school high tory). Or that they are total madmen/women. We had one of those two. Either way - I'm generally skeptical.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Feb 15, 2023 15:09:16 GMT
My experience of defectors from labour is that they largely go straight to the right of the party. We had one in Wandsworth who went all Breitbart (although to be fair, he settled down to a more normal tory position in time and then re-re(re)invented himself as an old school high tory). Or that they are total madmen/women. We had one of those two. Either way - I'm generally skeptical. You wouldn’t think looking at him now that he was a Labour member, councillor, and employed by a Labour MP less than a decade ago. As far as I can tell, there’s just nothing Labour, left wing or even right wing ‘workerist’ about him, he just seems like a down the line right wing Tory.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 15, 2023 15:46:59 GMT
I'm not sure even the PM has that much money My experience of defectors from labour is that they largely go straight to the right of the party. We had one in Wandsworth who went all Breitbart (although to be fair, he settled down to a more normal tory position in time and then re-re(re)invented himself as an old school high tory). Or that they are total madmen/women. We had one of those two. Either way - I'm generally skeptical. Defectors are more likely than the average politician to be odd, as there has to be a reason that they fell out with their original party and they won't always be wholly the wronged party. Plus it's not usually a fun experience and personal bitterness (plus a desire to ingratiate themselves with their new party) may make them exaggerate the shift in their positions.
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