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Post by casualobserver on Jun 20, 2021 0:06:35 GMT
Although IIRC Widdecombe didn't support Clarke's views on Europe but thought him most likely to win the election for the Tories. An interesting counter-factual if Clarke had won the leadership contest - although I think it unlikely that he would have dislodged Blair much (or indeed any) sooner as Blair had a huge honeymoon really up until 2001 and indeed until the Iraq war. Widdecombe was that rare Conservative politician in the period who even many activists had no clue what her position on the EU actually was. Instead she was known for her hard line on law & order, opposition to fox hunting, staunch Anglo-Catholic and eventually Roman Catholic church views and so on but was just never prominent on either side of the debate when it was raging. I’d disagree. I remember hearing her speak at a fundraising event in 2008 and her opposition to the EU was hardline even then. Having said that, her position on every single subject about which she had an opinion always came across to me as “hard line”. To Anne, “nuance” appeared to be a foreign word.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,566
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Post by Khunanup on Jun 20, 2021 0:11:55 GMT
It could be argued that as the government have refused the usual protocol of offering the automatic peerage then there's no reason why he should be obliged to follow it either. More likely now that he will actually be a Labour peer. I recall David Sheppard actually refused a crossbench peerage as he felt it would be hypocritical to accept one, and he took the Labour whip and a peerage on that basis. From John Bercow’s comments about there having been a conspiracy to deny him his peerage (and has there ever been such an appalling public display of naked entitlement?) it would appear that David Sheppard’s keenness to avoid hypocrisy has not been wholeheartedly shared by our ex-Speaker? Not being in any shape or form being a defender of the odious Bercow, yes there's always a sense of entitlement of ex-Speakers that they will be enobled. Alongside former PMs, unless they decline the opportunity, and huge amount of failed politicians on all sides of the political spectrum and beyond, in the beyond especially if they bung a few quid the way of a party or two. This is what a chamber of patronage gets you, overt or otherwise entitlement and effective corruption to gain a seat. In that context, at least Bercow has done a public service, including a popular mandate, to 'earn' a place rather than the bunch of social climbers for whom it's a matter of cash to the right people.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 20, 2021 0:22:25 GMT
Widdecombe was that rare Conservative politician in the period who even many activists had no clue what her position on the EU actually was. Instead she was known for her hard line on law & order, opposition to fox hunting, staunch Anglo-Catholic and eventually Roman Catholic church views and so on but was just never prominent on either side of the debate when it was raging. I’d disagree. I remember hearing her speak at a fundraising event in 2008 and her opposition to the EU was hardline even then. 2008 was significantly later and by then the internal EU had largely died away. I was thinking more of her time on and off the front bench in the Major and Hague years. Though when she did a fundraiser for us in 2010 the EU did not come up as a subject.
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Post by johnloony on Jun 20, 2021 2:54:10 GMT
Just to point out that Bercow has already been nominated for a Peerage by a Leader of the Labour Party. The government still have to accept it don’t they? No they don’t; that’s the point. That’s why Bercow didn’t already get a peerage when Corbyn nominated him for one.
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Post by matureleft on Jun 20, 2021 6:01:33 GMT
I note the muted Labour reaction. As far as I am aware the allegations of bullying haven’t been resolved and presumably won’t be, short of someone pursuing a personal claim of some kind. He has always denied them. Of course extreme behaviour toward staff among senior politicians has received something of a free pass recently.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 20, 2021 7:56:25 GMT
It was basically inevitable from the minute he got married to Sally. One of his former colleagues in the Conservative Monday Club once said that the trouble with Bercow was that he discovered sex and the Labour Party at the same time. If so has his cousin also joined Labour? And when does she get around to recruiting me ? In all honesty I'd rather be recruited by Bessie Braddock
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 20, 2021 9:29:40 GMT
Party political peerages are done in ad hoc lists so we don't know when the next one is. But having had two relatively large lists in 2020 (31 July and 22 December), and with the Lords increasingly concerned that the House is too large, it won't happen very soon.
The problem with citing "Bercow's sense of entitlement" for his angling for a Peerage is that it has been generally understood for centuries that retiring Speakers were entitled to be raised to the Peerage. It is a unique exception that Bercow was denied that, and also denied the equally consistent tradition over centuries of the House of Commons approving a motion thanking the Speaker for their service. This resolution is where the Peerage comes from:
"That an humble address be presented to Her Majesty praying Her Majesty that she will be most graciously pleased to confer some signal mark of her royal favour upon [retiring Speaker], for his eminent services during the important period in which he has, with such distinguished ability and dignity, presided in the Chair of the House and assuring Her Majesty that whatever expense Her Majesty shall think fit to be incurred upon that account this House will make good the same"
(If the Conservatives wanted to damn Bercow in comparison to other Speakers, they could just have tweaked that motion to remove much of the praise.)
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 20, 2021 10:21:20 GMT
Why did nobody else try to table such a resolution? Bercow demonstrated that the government isn't the sole source of tabling things.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,819
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 20, 2021 11:20:54 GMT
I note the muted Labour reaction. As far as I am aware the allegations of bullying haven’t been resolved and presumably won’t be, short of someone pursuing a personal claim of some kind. He has always denied them. Of course extreme behaviour toward staff among senior politicians has received something of a free pass recently. Well that's the thing isn't it. Majoring on Bercow's supposed indiscretions whilst ignoring still more glaring and indisputable examples elsewhere, just makes you look like a giant hypocrite.
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polupolu
Lib Dem
Liberal (Democrat). Socially Liberal, Economically Keynesian.
Posts: 1,165
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Post by polupolu on Jun 20, 2021 14:15:12 GMT
I think retiring speakers should be made Viscounts and retiring Prime Ministers Earls But then I think the expenses of the Royal household should be funded by a levy on the holders of hereditary titles That seems fair.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 20, 2021 14:54:00 GMT
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 20, 2021 15:48:17 GMT
I think retiring speakers should be made Viscounts and retiring Prime Ministers Earls But then I think the expenses of the Royal household should be funded by a levy on the holders of hereditary titles That seems fair. And of course it should go without saying that such hereditary titles would give no voting rights in the HoL
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Post by stb12 on Jun 21, 2021 7:49:53 GMT
The Conservatives stuck to other precedents like not running in Bercow's constituency and not opposing his re-election by voice vote at the start of new parliaments. So however much they don't like him I think it may have been smart to just give him the cross-bench peerage and ultimately take him out of the public limelight.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,330
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jun 21, 2021 12:03:17 GMT
The Conservatives stuck to other precedents like not running in Bercow's constituency and not opposing his re-election by voice vote at the start of new parliaments. So however much they don't like him I think it may have been smart to just give him the cross-bench peerage and ultimately take him out of the public limelight. It all seems like a self-inflicted wound, especially given how Boris Johnson ignored other concerns about nominating peers and bullying.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 21, 2021 12:08:51 GMT
The Conservatives stuck to other precedents like not running in Bercow's constituency and not opposing his re-election by voice vote at the start of new parliaments. So however much they don't like him I think it may have been smart to just give him the cross-bench peerage and ultimately take him out of the public limelight. It all seems like a self-inflicted wound, especially given how Boris Johnson ignored other concerns about nominating peers and bullying. What wound?
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,330
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jun 21, 2021 12:15:43 GMT
It all seems like a self-inflicted wound, especially given how Boris Johnson ignored other concerns about nominating peers and bullying. What wound? Giving him the oxygen of publicity.
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ilerda on Jun 21, 2021 12:16:11 GMT
A Labour MP on Politics Live today said: "He should have been put in the House of Lords. I think there's some dissatisfaction right across the country about that."
Seems a rather bold statement in my view.
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peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,270
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Post by peterl on Jun 21, 2021 12:19:36 GMT
A Labour MP on Politics Live today said: "He should have been put in the House of Lords. I think there's some dissatisfaction right across the country about that." Seems a rather bold statement in my view. I would imagine 99.9% of people outside of the Westminster Bubble couldn't give a fig whether Bercow is given a peerage or not.
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Post by stb12 on Jun 21, 2021 12:26:36 GMT
It all seems like a self-inflicted wound, especially given how Boris Johnson ignored other concerns about nominating peers and bullying. What wound? Helping him stay in the limelight, crossbench peers tend to be fairly unremarkable
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 21, 2021 13:00:06 GMT
Giving him the oxygen of publicity. You seem to assume that Bercow receiving publicity is somehow unhelpful to 'my' side and helpful to his. I would not make such an assumption myself.
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