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Post by andrew111 on Jul 28, 2021 20:26:20 GMT
It seems that Labour voters are less understanding of other people thinking and voting differently. There´s actually a class and age divide among Labour supporters. The more traditional Labour voters are generally quite laid back about people voting differently. It is the younger, middle-class Labour voters, imbued in identity politics at school and college, who genuinely don´t understand other people. They see all opponents as ´racists´, sexists, bigots etc. The more traditional Labour voters are very good people - although I´m no longer one of them. There is a social media echo chamber effect that we can see even on this site where people encourage each other to indulge in ever more extreme attacks on people with different views. In that way intolerance gets cemented. I guess statistically social media bubbles may be more prevalent in the young, who are also more likely to be voting Labour. However I agree with the "pain of failure" argument above. My daughter talks about "having her birthright stolen" through Brexit. She is still in the stages of grief about it. In contrast, people who voted Leave won and are happy. Same with Tory voters. They keep winning and can adopt an attitude of patronising tolerance towards Labour voters. They on the other hand feel their turn in power keeps being denied them by evil Tory voters.. (especially any who are patronisingly tolerant towards them)
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 28, 2021 21:45:11 GMT
It seems that Labour voters are less understanding of other people thinking and voting differently. There´s actually a class and age divide among Labour supporters. The more traditional Labour voters are generally quite laid back about people voting differently. It is the younger, middle-class Labour voters, imbued in identity politics at school and college, who genuinely don´t understand other people. They see all opponents as ´racists´, sexists, bigots etc. The more traditional Labour voters are very good people - although I´m no longer one of them. There is a social media echo chamber effect that we can see even on this site where people encourage each other to indulge in ever more extreme attacks on people with different views. In that way intolerance gets cemented. I guess statistically social media bubbles may be more prevalent in the young, who are also more likely to be voting Labour. However I agree with the "pain of failure" argument above. My daughter talks about "having her birthright stolen" through Brexit. She is still in the stages of grief about it. In contrast, people who voted Leave won and are happy. Same with Tory voters. They keep winning and can adopt an attitude of patronising tolerance towards Labour voters. They on the other hand feel their turn in power keeps being denied them by evil Tory voters.. (especially any who are patronisingly tolerant towards them) There always seems to have been a dichotomy among people between "we've lost, ok, battern down the hatches, get on with life" and "we've lost, ARAGH!GH!"LJHG"""£" traitors!!!! they've stolen the election!!!!" It also seems to be highly correlated with being further to the left and believing any loss can't be anything other than underhand cheating and destruction of society.
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nodealbrexiteer
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non aligned favour no deal brexit!
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jul 28, 2021 21:48:47 GMT
There is a social media echo chamber effect that we can see even on this site where people encourage each other to indulge in ever more extreme attacks on people with different views. In that way intolerance gets cemented. I guess statistically social media bubbles may be more prevalent in the young, who are also more likely to be voting Labour. However I agree with the "pain of failure" argument above. My daughter talks about "having her birthright stolen" through Brexit. She is still in the stages of grief about it. In contrast, people who voted Leave won and are happy. Same with Tory voters. They keep winning and can adopt an attitude of patronising tolerance towards Labour voters. They on the other hand feel their turn in power keeps being denied them by evil Tory voters.. (especially any who are patronisingly tolerant towards them) There always seems to have been a dichotomy among people between "we've lost, ok, battern down the hatches, get on with life" and "we've lost, ARAGH!GH!"LJHG"""£" traitors!!!! they've stolen the election!!!!" It also seems to be highly correlated with being further to the left and believing any loss can't be anything other than underhand cheating and destruction of society. I'd add a little comment to that and say the further left you go the less sure I am that they actually want to win!
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Jul 29, 2021 5:32:13 GMT
There always seems to have been a dichotomy among people between "we've lost, ok, battern down the hatches, get on with life" and "we've lost, ARAGH!GH!"LJHG"""£" traitors!!!! they've stolen the election!!!!" It also seems to be highly correlated with being further to the left and believing any loss can't be anything other than underhand cheating and destruction of society. I'd add a little comment to that and say the further left you go the less sure I am that they actually want to win! Maybe that band is wider on the left but I think it's also there on the extreme right.
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Post by London Lad on Jul 29, 2021 8:00:36 GMT
There always seems to have been a dichotomy among people between "we've lost, ok, battern down the hatches, get on with life" and "we've lost, ARAGH!GH!"LJHG"""£" traitors!!!! they've stolen the election!!!!" It also seems to be highly correlated with being further to the left and believing any loss can't be anything other than underhand cheating and destruction of society. I'd add a little comment to that and say the further left you go the less sure I am that they actually want to win! I think the further you go to the extremes the purity of the revolution matters more than actual day to day power. The willingness for the grubby compromises needed to govern effectively is simply missing.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 29, 2021 8:13:20 GMT
I'd add a little comment to that and say the further left you go the less sure I am that they actually want to win! I think the further you go to the extremes the purity of the revolution matters more than actual day to day power. The willingness for the grubby compromises needed to govern effectively is simply missing. It depends on how much you want power, and for what purpose. And to what extent you think that genuine change can be achieved via gradualist or reformist methods. If your aim is a more profound change it could well be that you have rejected reform as an option anyway. I don't think our current political system enables any profound change. It doesn't even make party membership very meaningful because the two main parties are too big and encompassing to themselves be very meaningful. Being part of a smaller party is of limited use owing to the electoral system.
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jul 29, 2021 13:55:05 GMT
I think the further you go to the extremes the purity of the revolution matters more than actual day to day power. The willingness for the grubby compromises needed to govern effectively is simply missing. It depends on how much you want power, and for what purpose. And to what extent you think that genuine change can be achieved via gradualist or reformist methods. If your aim is a more profound change it could well be that you have rejected reform as an option anyway. I don't think our current political system enables any profound change. It doesn't even make party membership very meaningful because the two main parties are too big and encompassing to themselves be very meaningful. Being part of a smaller party is of limited use owing to the electoral system. Interesting article I read in the Times of Israel suggesting that the very fragility of the coalition government is making radical and/or long delayed reforms more likely: www.timesofisrael.com/new-budget-bill-shows-despite-fragility-coalition-to-launch-sweeping-reforms/
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 29, 2021 14:00:27 GMT
It depends on how much you want power, and for what purpose. And to what extent you think that genuine change can be achieved via gradualist or reformist methods. If your aim is a more profound change it could well be that you have rejected reform as an option anyway. I don't think our current political system enables any profound change. It doesn't even make party membership very meaningful because the two main parties are too big and encompassing to themselves be very meaningful. Being part of a smaller party is of limited use owing to the electoral system. Interesting article I read in the Times of Israel suggesting that the very fragility of the coalition government is making radical and/or long delayed reforms more likely: www.timesofisrael.com/new-budget-bill-shows-despite-fragility-coalition-to-launch-sweeping-reforms/When you know your time is limited and you aren't aiming for a single party majority ( because in Israel it will never happen) that's quite believable. The first question asked isn't "will this make us popular?"
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jul 29, 2021 14:08:02 GMT
When you know your time is limited and you aren't aiming for a single party majority ( because in Israel it will never happen) that's quite believable. The first question asked isn't "will this make us popular?" Indeed, and it looks like, except for a few vested interests, these reforms are needed and likely to be popular.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 29, 2021 16:42:00 GMT
When you know your time is limited and you aren't aiming for a single party majority ( because in Israel it will never happen) that's quite believable. The first question asked isn't "will this make us popular?" Indeed, and it looks like, except for a few vested interests, these reforms are needed and likely to be popular. Its interesting that they are challenging the ultra-orthodox lobby, who are none too popular among both more mainstream religious Jews and the seculars.
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Post by greenchristian on Jul 29, 2021 17:17:52 GMT
There is a social media echo chamber effect that we can see even on this site where people encourage each other to indulge in ever more extreme attacks on people with different views. In that way intolerance gets cemented. I guess statistically social media bubbles may be more prevalent in the young, who are also more likely to be voting Labour. However I agree with the "pain of failure" argument above. My daughter talks about "having her birthright stolen" through Brexit. She is still in the stages of grief about it. In contrast, people who voted Leave won and are happy. Same with Tory voters. They keep winning and can adopt an attitude of patronising tolerance towards Labour voters. They on the other hand feel their turn in power keeps being denied them by evil Tory voters.. (especially any who are patronisingly tolerant towards them) There always seems to have been a dichotomy among people between "we've lost, ok, battern down the hatches, get on with life" and "we've lost, ARAGH!GH!"LJHG"""£" traitors!!!! they've stolen the election!!!!" It also seems to be highly correlated with being further to the left and believing any loss can't be anything other than underhand cheating and destruction of society. You think that Donald Trump is on the left?
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Jul 29, 2021 17:39:12 GMT
Indeed, and it looks like, except for a few vested interests, these reforms are needed and likely to be popular. Its interesting that they are challenging the ultra-orthodox lobby, who are none too popular among both more mainstream religious Jews and the seculars. And if they get this through then the floodgates are open to take to pieces the Heredi special privileges and largely secularise Israel. Once that's done, it's never going back.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 29, 2021 18:06:28 GMT
Its interesting that they are challenging the ultra-orthodox lobby, who are none too popular among both more mainstream religious Jews and the seculars. And if they get this through then the floodgates are open to take to pieces the Heredi special privileges and largely secularise Israel. Once that's done, it's never going back. The two areas which really wind people up are getting out of military service by studies at yeshivas forever, and the amount of benefits paid to very large families where religious study is prioritised over earning a living
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Jul 29, 2021 18:32:12 GMT
And if they get this through then the floodgates are open to take to pieces the Heredi special privileges and largely secularise Israel. Once that's done, it's never going back. The two areas which really wind people up are getting out of military service by studies at yeshivas forever, and the amount of benefits paid to very large families where religious study is prioritised over earning a living Yep, nonsense practices that are surely on borrowed time.
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jul 29, 2021 19:50:23 GMT
The two areas which really wind people up are getting out of military service by studies at yeshivas forever, and the amount of benefits paid to very large families where religious study is prioritised over earning a living Yep, nonsense practices that are surely on borrowed time. Avigdor Liberman, of whom I am not exactly a fan (too say the least) is right about the Haredi privileges and his role as Finance Minister is exactly where he needs to be to win his battle.
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Post by hullenedge on Aug 7, 2021 21:02:54 GMT
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Jack
Reform Party
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Post by Jack on Aug 21, 2021 19:11:01 GMT
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
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Post by cogload on Aug 21, 2021 19:29:46 GMT
The weightings look..interesting...
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Post by hullenedge on Sept 5, 2021 6:25:09 GMT
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Jack
Reform Party
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Post by Jack on Sept 11, 2021 19:07:23 GMT
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