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Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 29, 2024 21:36:06 GMT
The Tories are centrist because they tax us like left-wingers, and spend like right-wingers. If they did that, the treasury would be running a surplus. I think it is the other way round.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,567
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Post by Khunanup on Apr 29, 2024 22:29:58 GMT
The Tories are centrist because they tax us like left-wingers, and spend like right-wingers. Unfortunately now that Starmer has joined the Tories and Lib Dems in backing the triple lock to the hilt, this will continue- and there is no alternative if you object to any aspect of this potentially eyewatering spending commitment. I know this is a bete noir for yourself and others, but having been around when grinding pensioner poverty was completely the norm and you saw the impact day by day on needing to access other forms of governmental financial support, it was, and remains a no brainer. And if nothing else, when you put the most susceptible people where having a shortage of money has the most detrimental impact on their wellbeing, the consequences of that is almost always going to cost you more via health & care expenditure. You talk about upfront cost for triple lock. It's nothing compared to upfront cost for social care for people who are fully funded for their social care needs (which is entirely who the triple lock exists to benefit).
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,726
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Post by J.G.Harston on Apr 29, 2024 23:54:28 GMT
The Tories are centrist because they tax us like left-wingers, and spend like right-wingers. If they did that, the treasury would be running a surplus. I think it is the other way round. Well, I suppose during WW2 the last time taxes were this high, the government was a Conservative administration. So, Churchill was a left-winger?
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 30, 2024 6:06:12 GMT
Unfortunately now that Starmer has joined the Tories and Lib Dems in backing the triple lock to the hilt, this will continue- and there is no alternative if you object to any aspect of this potentially eyewatering spending commitment. I know this is a bete noir for yourself and others, but having been around when grinding pensioner poverty was completely the norm and you saw the impact day by day on needing to access other forms of governmental financial support, it was, and remains a no brainer. And if nothing else, when you put the most susceptible people where having a shortage of money has the most detrimental impact on their wellbeing, the consequences of that is almost always going to cost you more via health & care expenditure. You talk about upfront cost for triple lock. It's nothing compared to upfront cost for social care for people who are fully funded for their social care needs (which is entirely who the triple lock exists to benefit). But surely resolving that does not necessarily need the maintenance of a mechanism this expensive, this universal and this open to escalating quickly. Would it not be cheaper to build on the Pension Credit setup? Germany has introduced a remarkably similar concept in recent years, although admittedly their pension costs are spiralling for different reasons. And, to repeat my previous hobby horse - no politician wants to justify the obvious point that it is apparently completely affordable, but younger cohorts will have to work longer to maintain it.
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 30, 2024 7:03:29 GMT
I know this is a bete noir for yourself and others, but having been around when grinding pensioner poverty was completely the norm and you saw the impact day by day on needing to access other forms of governmental financial support, it was, and remains a no brainer. And if nothing else, when you put the most susceptible people where having a shortage of money has the most detrimental impact on their wellbeing, the consequences of that is almost always going to cost you more via health & care expenditure. You talk about upfront cost for triple lock. It's nothing compared to upfront cost for social care for people who are fully funded for their social care needs (which is entirely who the triple lock exists to benefit). But surely resolving that does not necessarily need the maintenance of a mechanism this expensive, this universal and this open to escalating quickly. Would it not be cheaper to build on the Pension Credit setup? Germany has introduced a remarkably similar concept in recent years, although admittedly their pension costs are spiralling for different reasons. And, to repeat my previous hobby horse - no politician wants to justify the obvious point that it is apparently completely affordable, but younger cohorts will have to work longer to maintain it. If we can afford billions to assuage climate changers, billions for frit people to laze at home instead of face up to a nasty strain of flu, and billions to add to the killing fields of Ukraine for a daft principle, why can't we afford our own pensioners? Most of you will make it to pensioner and then you will change your views : believe me because I did.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 30, 2024 7:55:07 GMT
I know this is a bete noir for yourself and others, but having been around when grinding pensioner poverty was completely the norm and you saw the impact day by day on needing to access other forms of governmental financial support, it was, and remains a no brainer. And if nothing else, when you put the most susceptible people where having a shortage of money has the most detrimental impact on their wellbeing, the consequences of that is almost always going to cost you more via health & care expenditure. You talk about upfront cost for triple lock. It's nothing compared to upfront cost for social care for people who are fully funded for their social care needs (which is entirely who the triple lock exists to benefit). But surely resolving that does not necessarily need the maintenance of a mechanism this expensive, this universal and this open to escalating quickly. Would it not be cheaper to build on the Pension Credit setup? Germany has introduced a remarkably similar concept in recent years, although admittedly their pension costs are spiralling for different reasons. And, to repeat my previous hobby horse - no politician wants to justify the obvious point that it is apparently completely affordable, but younger cohorts will have to work longer to maintain it. More and more in younger cohorts are working jobs which we will be physically capable of doing when we reach 70, even if intellectually we would rather not. Taken as cohorts, we're also entering the workforce later. And given rising ages at which people are able to buy a house, more of us will need to continue working anyway because we'll still have mortgages to pay off. There is an upper age limit at which that argument stops holding water, but we're not there yet. If we're talking about targeted support of specific subgroups, there is a strong case for better assistance (whether that be earlier/phased retirement, incapacity benefits or retraining support) towards those in younger cohorts who work more manual jobs but I don't think that invalidates the need for the basic state pension to rise with inflation (especially since private pensions are not going to be enough for most people in younger cohorts to live on).
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 30, 2024 7:55:36 GMT
But surely resolving that does not necessarily need the maintenance of a mechanism this expensive, this universal and this open to escalating quickly. Would it not be cheaper to build on the Pension Credit setup? Germany has introduced a remarkably similar concept in recent years, although admittedly their pension costs are spiralling for different reasons. And, to repeat my previous hobby horse - no politician wants to justify the obvious point that it is apparently completely affordable, but younger cohorts will have to work longer to maintain it. If we can afford billions to assuage climate changers, billions for frit people to laze at home instead of face up to a nasty strain of flu, and billions to add to the killing fields of Ukraine for a daft principle, why can't we afford our own pensioners? Most of you will make it to pensioner and then you will change your views : believe me because I did. I'm sure we will. But if it's completely affordable as it is, there's no good reason to push the pension age further out - or to raise the age at which people can draw their own private pension. I'm personally working on the basis that it is better to make a personal provision and forget about drawing a state pension this side of 70.
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,826
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Apr 30, 2024 8:22:13 GMT
At 7.39am this morning, LBC news reported that the Labour MP for Birmingham, Hall Green and the non party MP for Leicester East were in talks with George Galloway about defecting to his party
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 30, 2024 8:42:01 GMT
Claudia Webbe might as well go - she's got no way back to Labour and nothing to lose.
Tahir Ali would be throwing away a 26,507 Labour majority and the influence of being a government backbencher, and would have to be bonkers to switch. (On the other hand, unattributably flirting with defecting might shore up his vote)
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,371
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Post by YL on Apr 30, 2024 8:47:43 GMT
Webbe congratulated Galloway on his Rochdale win.
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Yaffles
Non-Aligned
Posts: 441
Member is Online
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Post by Yaffles on Apr 30, 2024 8:49:13 GMT
Claudia Webbe might as well go - she's got no way back to Labour and nothing to lose. Tahir Ali would be throwing away a 26,507 Labour majority and the influence of being a government backbencher, and would have to be bonkers to switch. (On the other hand, unattributably flirting with defecting might shore up his vote) Has Ali actually been re-selected?, I heard he was in a spot of bother, but that was a while ago.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Apr 30, 2024 9:11:19 GMT
Webbe congratulated Galloway on his Rochdale win. And she was sat with him right on the back row a few weeks back.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 30, 2024 9:11:46 GMT
Ali has not been reselected and there have been rumours that the NEC wants to get rid of him. However he swiftly gave an apology after his PMQs rant, which was humiliating but might have justified throwing him out if he hadn't. And judging by this, he seems well aware that a strong declaration of loyalty is needed after this rumour:
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Apr 30, 2024 9:12:49 GMT
As was Ali
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Apr 30, 2024 9:14:54 GMT
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Post by hullenedge on Apr 30, 2024 9:22:30 GMT
If we can afford billions to assuage climate changers, billions for frit people to laze at home instead of face up to a nasty strain of flu, and billions to add to the killing fields of Ukraine for a daft principle, why can't we afford our own pensioners? Most of you will make it to pensioner and then you will change your views : believe me because I did. I'm sure we will. But if it's completely affordable as it is, there's no good reason to push the pension age further out - or to raise the age at which people can draw their own private pension. I'm personally working on the basis that it is better to make a personal provision and forget about drawing a state pension this side of 70. There's a possibility that the qualifying years for a full state pension will increase from the current 35 years.
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Post by batman on Apr 30, 2024 9:43:29 GMT
Ali has not been reselected and there have been rumours that the NEC wants to get rid of him. However he swiftly gave an apology after his PMQs rant, which was humiliating but might have justified throwing him out if he hadn't. And judging by this, he seems well aware that a strong declaration of loyalty is needed after this rumour: I welcome his statement and hope that Apsana Begum is in a position to do the same. As far as I am concerned, if a serving Labour MP has been in talks with Galloway with a view to possibly defecting, I'd sling them out regardless of their decision. Galloway is a rape apologist, an anti-Semite and an unequivocal supporter of the genocidal régimes in Syria and Iran. He should be beyond the pale for a member of any democratic political party, whether Conservative, SNP, Liberal Democrat or my own party Labour. I hope that Apsana Begum has not been involved in any such talks. Claudia Webbe may do what she pleases as she has already been expelled from the Labour Party and is not a member of any other party as far as we are aware.
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andrea
Non-Aligned
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Member is Online
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Post by andrea on Apr 30, 2024 9:49:35 GMT
Ali has not been reselected and there have been rumours that the NEC wants to get rid of him. Ali is on the list of candidates for 2024 GE on Labour party website. vote.labour.org.uk/results?search=birmingham(the party website has Birmingham Hodge Hill and Solihull North still without a candidate but Byrne was a late re-selection last month and it hasn't been updated yet or the the approval hasn't gone through NEC organization committee yet).
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 30, 2024 10:20:10 GMT
Ali has not been reselected and there have been rumours that the NEC wants to get rid of him. Ali is on the list of candidates for 2024 GE on Labour party website. vote.labour.org.uk/results?search=birmingham(the party website has Birmingham Hodge Hill and Solihull North still without a candidate but Byrne was a late re-selection last month and it hasn't been updated yet or the the approval hasn't gone through NEC organization committee yet). I'm not sure that site is proof that he has been selected. For instance, there has been no selection in Queen's Park and Maida Vale CLP. Search for it and you find it lists Karen Buck as sitting MP (in the same way as Tahir Ali is listed in Birmingham).
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,828
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 30, 2024 10:49:15 GMT
I mean, bombastic bull***t is Galloway's speciality (see also the "we will stand everywhere at the next GE" nonsense which many hacks have also spouted totally uncritically) but given his past record you might think that even our generally hopeless excuses for mainstream "journalists" would become slightly sceptical by now.
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