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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jun 15, 2024 16:59:59 GMT
But then placing smaller parties on an equal footing with larger ones favours the smaller parties, doesn't it. The silly part is that debates mostly don't matter. About the only countries where they can still move electoral mountains are those with unusually weak parties where people genuinely do watch the debates to work out who to vote for: the Netherlands is a good example. But that's not us. I agree debates don't matter really, but it is a matter of attitude. Strong parties, here? No. Big parties yes, but strong no, just look at Labour and the Tories at the moment, all infighting amongst weak politicians. It's no wonder no-one wants to vote for either of them nationally, unfortunately our system only really allows for 2 so most people hold their noses and plump for the least smelly one at that time. Currently Labour. |
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YouGov
Jun 15, 2024 17:01:32 GMT
Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jun 15, 2024 17:01:32 GMT
It makes sense in that it protects incumbent parties. What many Labour and Conservative supporters is a US situation where there only 2 parties, hence making rules towards this end. They don't want what is good for the nation just what is good for them in their parties. Please note I say many not all. Not really.
ReformUK has not had a single MP elected, but would be at the debate under those hypothetical conditions. The Lib Dems wouldn't when the election was called, but are above the hypothetical 10% now.
If anything, having the Greens and Plaid next to the Labour/ Tory leader is incredibly unfair as it favours the small parties.
If the big parties have good policies they need not be afraid of letting little guys with poor policies in. |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473 
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Post by peterl on Jun 15, 2024 18:23:57 GMT
You do not vote for who the PM is, which makes these televised debates just another opportunity for pointless grandstanding. Hustings in individual constituencies are the British tradition. It might be a good thing if they were recorded and made available online for the benefit of those who can't make it. But there is no utility in debates between leaders.
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Jun 15, 2024 19:22:39 GMT
You do not vote for who the PM is, which makes these televised debates just another opportunity for pointless grandstanding. Hustings in individual constituencies are the British tradition. It might be a good thing if they were recorded and made available online for the benefit of those who can't make it. But there is no utility in debates between leaders. You do not vote for who the PM is, a lot of the general public do. Why else do you think Sunak looking silly as deprivation was being deprived of Sky cuts through and makes a difference to perception and votes. Kinnock falling over, Major on his soap box, Foot and his donkey jacket, Clegg and student loans, they are important in public perception. Thr leaders debates may not be a big part of this, but leaders matter, its one of The Green parties current problems, not having anyone of any profile to matter, The Greens won't have a chance of breaking out of their few hard worked silos until this changes. |
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Post by batman on Jun 15, 2024 19:49:28 GMT
Of course they are all important, but we don't need leaders' debates for the public to get strong perceptions of what they think of the various party leaders generally speaking.
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Post by Old Fashioned Leftie on Jun 15, 2024 19:55:19 GMT
You do not vote for who the PM is, which makes these televised debates just another opportunity for pointless grandstanding. Hustings in individual constituencies are the British tradition. It might be a good thing if they were recorded and made available online for the benefit of those who can't make it. But there is no utility in debates between leaders. You do not vote for who the PM is, a lot of the general public do. Why else do you think Sunak looking silly as deprivation was being deprived of Sky cuts through and makes a difference to perception and votes. Kinnock falling over, Major on his soap box, Foot and his donkey jacket, Clegg and student loans, they are important in public perception. Thr leaders debates may not be a big part of this, but leaders matter, its one of The Green parties current problems, not having anyone of any profile to matter, The Greens won't have a chance of breaking out of their few hard worked silos until this changes. I actually think Carla Denyer comes across really well. Having co-leaders makes little sense to me. I am sure one of our Green friends here will enlighten us how this works and whether they feel it is effective at a general election. |
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graham
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,350
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YouGov
Jun 15, 2024 20:49:31 GMT
Post by graham on Jun 15, 2024 20:49:31 GMT
You do not vote for who the PM is, a lot of the general public do. Why else do you think Sunak looking silly as deprivation was being deprived of Sky cuts through and makes a difference to perception and votes. Kinnock falling over, Major on his soap box, Foot and his donkey jacket, Clegg and student loans, they are important in public perception. Thr leaders debates may not be a big part of this, but leaders matter, its one of The Green parties current problems, not having anyone of any profile to matter, The Greens won't have a chance of breaking out of their few hard worked silos until this changes. I actually think Carla Denyer comes across really well. Having co-leaders makes little sense to me. I am sure one of our Green friends here will enlighten us how this works and whether they feel it is effective at a general election. Interesting that she impressed you. I have watched none of the debates, but a Green-inclined friend was rather put off by her peformance - to the extent he now intends to spoil his ballot paper! |
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Post by Old Fashioned Leftie on Jun 15, 2024 20:52:51 GMT
I actually think Carla Denyer comes across really well. Having co-leaders makes little sense to me. I am sure one of our Green friends here will enlighten us how this works and whether they feel it is effective at a general election. Interesting that she impressed you. I have watched none of the debates, but a Green-inclined friend was rather put off by her peformance - to the extent he now intends to spoil his ballot paper! Impressions are very personal i guess, she came across to me as a real person who wanted to explain her positions on policy rather than someone who had had her personality removed through media training. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,732
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YouGov
Jun 15, 2024 21:01:57 GMT
Post by CatholicLeft on Jun 15, 2024 21:01:57 GMT
Interesting that she impressed you. I have watched none of the debates, but a Green-inclined friend was rather put off by her peformance - to the extent he now intends to spoil his ballot paper! Impressions are very personal i guess, she came across to me as a real person who wanted to explain her positions on policy rather than someone who had had her personality removed through media training. For me, there is something of Reece Witherspoon's Tracy Flick in "Election" about her: earnest and very ambitious. Nothing wrong with that, she is, after all, a politician. |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,143
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Post by cogload on Jun 16, 2024 11:23:13 GMT
Peter Kellner on Times Radio indicated there could be another MRP in the works. Watch out for the fireworks.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 16, 2024 11:38:25 GMT
I think in the last election, YouGov pushed an MRP in the early phase and then updated it twice during the election. Presumably the same approach this time.
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Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,710
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Post by Jack on Jun 16, 2024 11:45:49 GMT
YouGov asked me the other day about how I would vote in my constituency, with the candidates listed. So they're definitely going to be updating it soon.
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YouGov
Jun 16, 2024 16:28:53 GMT
Post by carlton43 on Jun 16, 2024 16:28:53 GMT
Peter Kellner on Times Radio indicated there could be another MRP in the works. Watch out for the fireworks. Or rain-soaked squib!! |
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YouGov
Jun 16, 2024 20:17:18 GMT
Post by redtony on Jun 16, 2024 20:17:18 GMT
Are there going to be any constituency polls
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YouGov
Jun 16, 2024 21:19:40 GMT
Post by carolus on Jun 16, 2024 21:19:40 GMT
Are there going to be any constituency polls
I suspect public constituency polling has largely fallen out of favour as it didn't seem to be very effective, and in any case some pollsters are busy playing with their MRPs insteead.
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YouGov
Jun 17, 2024 9:29:56 GMT
Post by greenchristian on Jun 17, 2024 9:29:56 GMT
You do not vote for who the PM is, a lot of the general public do. Why else do you think Sunak looking silly as deprivation was being deprived of Sky cuts through and makes a difference to perception and votes. Kinnock falling over, Major on his soap box, Foot and his donkey jacket, Clegg and student loans, they are important in public perception. Thr leaders debates may not be a big part of this, but leaders matter, its one of The Green parties current problems, not having anyone of any profile to matter, The Greens won't have a chance of breaking out of their few hard worked silos until this changes. I actually think Carla Denyer comes across really well. Having co-leaders makes little sense to me. I am sure one of our Green friends here will enlighten us how this works and whether they feel it is effective at a general election. The co-leaders and deputy leader are simply three positions on the party's executive whose job is a combination of being the public faces of the party and helping out local parties by turning up to give them a bit of a boost. I don't think it's any more or less effective during a GE than a sole leader. The effectiveness depends entirely on the people who happen to hold the post(s) at the time. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,979
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YouGov
Jun 17, 2024 11:39:40 GMT
Post by The Bishop on Jun 17, 2024 11:39:40 GMT
Are there going to be any constituency polls I suspect public constituency polling has largely fallen out of favour as it didn't seem to be very effective, and in any case some pollsters are busy playing with their MRPs insteead.
Though there were quite a few byelection polls for the outgoing parliament - some got very close and only a handful were complete failures. (the late effort in Wellingborough notably was, but that arguably just showed why literally nobody does face to face surveys anymore) |
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YouGov
Jun 17, 2024 13:45:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by evergreenadam on Jun 17, 2024 13:45:23 GMT
Are there going to be any constituency polls There is a crowdfunding initiative to commission an Islington North constituency poll, at the last update they were £25 short: www.gofundme.com/f/IslingtonPoll |
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YouGov
Jun 17, 2024 14:39:26 GMT
Post by johnloony on Jun 17, 2024 14:39:26 GMT
Are there going to be any constituency polls I suspect public constituency polling has largely fallen out of favour as it didn't seem to be very effective, and in any case some pollsters are busy playing with their MRPs insteead.
That link says that Laboir is 1st and Reform is 2nd but it doesn’t otherwise say what the voting intention numbers are |
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YouGov
Jun 17, 2024 14:54:24 GMT
Post by carolus on Jun 17, 2024 14:54:24 GMT
I suspect public constituency polling has largely fallen out of favour as it didn't seem to be very effective, and in any case some pollsters are busy playing with their MRPs insteead.
That link says that Laboir is 1st and Reform is 2nd but it doesn’t otherwise say what the voting intention numbers are I think the paywall behaves strangely with some browsers (and ad-blockers), such that it doesn't indicate more than the first couple of paragraphs even exist.
They claim the numbers are: Lab 58%, Reform UK 23%, Con 10%, LD 6%, Other 2%.
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