Simon Thomas AM

[The Bishop]

If the question is whether our approach works better than the US one, well the evidence suggests that on the whole it does. There are always exceptions, of course.

[Crimson King]

I am sure there are facts about the relative effectiveness of sentences somewhere that could help rather than made up numbers

[boogieeck]

Freakonomics did a very persuasive piece comparing states that are tough on crime with states that are soft on crime and showed that crime figures dropped off a cliff 18 years after abortion was legalised, or in the case of Romania, crime rocketed 18 years after birth control was prohibited.

It has long been my view (long standing members will know this) that first time offenders can pretty much be admonished for even serious crimes but that repeat offenders should be imprisoned for life after three strikes, even for minor offences. Which might not exclude them being released on licence after a few years of re-education and maturity.

[East Anglian Lefty]

As I recall, the argument wasn't any more substantial than a suggestion that poor families don't love their children. Whether you find that persuasive is another question.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Nov 21, 2018 20:32:43 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

As I recall, the argument wasn't any more substantial than a suggestion that poor families don't love their children. Whether you find that persuasive is another question.

It's been a while since I had a look at it, but as I recall the argument was closer to being that there were fewer 16-21 year-old males, and that they tended to be the most violent section of society.

There's a not dissimilar argument that links the decline in criminality to the banning of leaded petrol.

[East Anglian Lefty]

The banning of leaded petrol at least had a correlation to go on.

The abortion argument just had a start point and a whole bunch of moralising guff.

[boogieeck]

Nov 4, 2018 17:01:23 GMT Crimson King said:

I am sure there are facts about the relative effectiveness of sentences somewhere that could help rather than made up numbers

There may well be, but they are not relevant, because public and political opinion demands that they are not.

Some sentences are considered too lenient to be considered. This case clearly skirted on that. I think there were a number of factors that made a custodial sentence unnecessary and therefore more likely to have a deleterious effect than a beneficial one. The immediate guilty plea and all the waffle about his sad life count, but to me, not very much.

I think there is quite clearly a huge difference between filming - making the film of - the live act of a child being molested by that filmmaker - and downloading - making a copy of - said act. That is not to diminish the latter crime, rather I am seeking to elevate the former crime.

Of relevance to my mind is that he was in a position where the very act of being accused was career-ending, and to an extent, a considerable punishment had already been enacted. Some might feel enough had already been enacted.

But if this sounds like I am being too much of a softy, I return to my claim that some sentences cannot be considered because "public and political opinion demands that they are not."

For the person who actually "made" the original images, I genuinely ask why castration is not considered? And for Simon Thomas, I genuinely ask, why flogging would not be an appropriate sentence to cover the punishment component of the sentence?

But the answers will not be an explanation of why they would not be effective. The answers will be that they are barbaric and that I am an awful person.

So why revive this thread? I stumbled across it, I think by now Crimson King may be bored at his wedding and wish to hear the ping of notification, and London Lad said something on another thread about flogging, and I mentally noted that it merited further discussion if only to evidence my claim that it will be denounced not on grounds of effectiveness with offenders, but on the far more critical reason that it offends the polite progressive middle classes, ie you lot.

And I might run it next year in fourth-year Criminology for the LOLz. Ideally when the progressive left-wing female students are demanding prosecutions based on accusation

[Crimson King]

not bored xxx

[boogieeck]

Did you give them a song? I have heard you are very good.

[Crimson King]

Jun 5, 2022 0:15:46 GMT boogieeck said:

Did you give them a song? I have heard you are very good.

Not in the reception, but yes, with the choir in the service