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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 24, 2018 21:49:32 GMT
Rumantsch is a quite fascinatingly beautiful language. I hope it continues to survive. Endlessly fascinating how Ticino votes like the German-speakers. I suspect the catholic/protestant divide has something to do with that. I'm not sure- it often votes with the very Prod cantons such as Zurich. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 24, 2018 21:50:33 GMT
Anyway, if you fancy a long weekend and you're not on a restricted budget, Ticino is a wonderful part of the world. Or stay in Como and travel in.
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 24, 2018 22:37:33 GMT
Have you got a Proddy/Catholic map too? That would add an additional reference point. Not doable with my "StoneAge"-SmartPhone. Having the confessional borders in mind, though, i wouldn't say, that the cleavage is strong: The Catholics in Valais and Fribourg voted less leftish than the Protestants in Geneva, Neuchatel (and Vaud!, where lots of traditional UDC-farmers have been replaced by internationalistic buinessmen) - albeit not in Jura. German-catholic InnerCH has partly other reasons, also perhaps the Bernina-valley. Of course, both confessions are nowadays rarely more than tradition&folklore. Reformism has been - apart from American sects - alive only in the mountainous regions (upperBern, Glarus, Graubünden). The fate of Catholic faith being not very different. The traditional affiliations are critically important though. Despite not being of a practicing religion the religious background of people is often more influential that you might expect in terms of political affiliation. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Sept 25, 2018 0:38:41 GMT
Of course, both confessions are nowadays rarely more than tradition&folklore. Reformism has been - apart from American sects - alive only in the mountainous regions (upperBern, Glarus, Graubünden). The fate of Catholic faith being not very different. The traditional affiliations are critically important though. Despite not being of a practicing religion the religious background of people is often more influential that you might expect in terms of political affiliation. Exactly. That was meant by my "tradition&folklore". |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Sept 25, 2018 6:54:48 GMT
The traditional affiliations are critically important though. Despite not being of a practicing religion the religious background of people is often more influential that you might expect in terms of political affiliation. Exactly. That was meant by my "tradition&folklore". It's not just "tradition and folklore" (though those are real.) Religions have a cast-of-mind that lives on in habits of thinking - e.g. my Christian mother-in-law has a way of thinking about all sorts of non-religious issues that is IMO essentially religious - she thinks in terms of "right" or "wrong" choices where I think in terms of a set of consequences pro and con each choice. (She also looks for authoritative texts.) IIRC research shows conspiracy theorists are more likely to be religious though the link is obscure. Ex-Catholic Europe is politically different to ex-Protestant Europe and ex-Orthodox Europe, and ex-Christian Europe is politically different to the Islamic world. Some of the USA's philosophical difference comes (I think) from being founded by Puritans. It's moot as to which came first - are politics in Cornwall, er, different, because Cornwall was Methodist, or did Cornwall become Methodist because the Cornish wouldn't conform to the CofE? |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Sept 25, 2018 14:13:51 GMT
Exactly. That was meant by my "tradition&folklore". It's not just "tradition and folklore" (though those are real.) Religions have a cast-of-mind that lives on in habits of thinking - e.g. my Christian mother-in-law has a way of thinking about all sorts of non-religious issues that is IMO essentially religious - she thinks in terms of "right" or "wrong" choices where I think in terms of a set of consequences pro and con each choice. (She also looks for authoritative texts.) IIRC research shows conspiracy theorists are more likely to be religious though the link is obscure. Ex-Catholic Europe is politically different to ex-Protestant Europe and ex-Orthodox Europe, and ex-Christian Europe is politically different to the Islamic world. Some of the USA's philosophical difference comes (I think) from being founded by Puritans. It's moot as to which came first - are politics in Cornwall, er, different, because Cornwall was Methodist, or did Cornwall become Methodist because the Cornish wouldn't conform to the CofE? That's tradition! Real tra-ditio is a cultural (and not a natural) thing, sure; but if it isn't irreal, it is involuntary and unconscious. (GOMEZ DAVILA: "How to save a tradition? Not to speak about it!") |
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Post by westmercian on Sept 25, 2018 18:25:31 GMT
Thinking Ticino is politically alike the French-speaking cantons is similar to how many non-Brits think that Wales and Scotland must be politically alike simply because they're not English (cf not German-speaking) or "Celtic" (oh dear) (cf Romance-languages).
There are actually few similarities or connections between Italian-speaking CH with the French-speaking cantons, aside from being relatively poor (for Switzerland.. still wealthier than most of the UK of course) and abiding by the Swiss way of doing things.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 25, 2018 20:29:41 GMT
Thinking Ticino is politically alike the French-speaking cantons is similar to how many non-Brits think that Wales and Scotland must be politically alike simply because they're not English (cf not German-speaking) or "Celtic" (oh dear) (cf Romance-languages). There are actually few similarities or connections between Italian-speaking CH with the French-speaking cantons, aside from being relatively poor (for Switzerland.. still wealthier than most of the UK of course) and abiding by the Swiss way of doing things. Actually, Ticino is the 7th-wealthiest canton per capita. The poorest is actually Uri. The poorer Italian speakers are in Graubuenden, which isn't poor either. But Ticino does have that odd reputation for poverty that it found hard to shake, and it once was- Ticinese emigration was very high, Locarnesi heading for California and Luganesi for Australia. But for years, it has been the third-largest banking site after Zurich and Geneva (there are loads of banking sites, rather than branches, if you wander round Lugano), it has gold refining, tourism, wine, fashion... Your broader point is true, that the Italians tend to abide with the Swiss ways. Outside Ticino of course, most indigenous Italians are in Graubuenden with Germans and the Rumantsch. If I had to live in Switzerland, it'd be Lugano or Canton Zurich. |
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Post by westmercian on Sept 25, 2018 20:44:34 GMT
I am a fan of Ticino, though find Lugano a bit too much for my liking - prefer Bellinzona. Ticino's fortunes have improved, it's true, though much of that new-found prosperity seems to be in/near Lugano..?
I wonder if the new railway tunnels will in the long-run help or hinder... on the one hand, the canton is now well-connected with the rest of the Confederation... on the other hand, Milan-Zurich are now (or are about to be) so well connected that Lugano's role may be undermined?
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 25, 2018 21:29:47 GMT
I am a fan of Ticino, though find Lugano a bit too much for my liking - prefer Bellinzona. Ticino's fortunes have improved, it's true, though much of that new-found prosperity seems to be in/near Lugano..? I wonder if the new railway tunnels will in the long-run help or hinder... on the one hand, the canton is now well-connected with the rest of the Confederation... on the other hand, Milan-Zurich are now (or are about to be) so well connected that Lugano's role may be undermined? I suspect help. Especially as they will really integrate Lugano, Locarno and Bellinzona. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Sept 26, 2018 1:33:22 GMT
Have you got a Proddy/Catholic map too? That would add an additional reference point. Not doable with my "StoneAge"-SmartPhone. Having the confessional borders in mind, though, i wouldn't say, that the cleavage is strong: The Catholics in Valais and Fribourg voted less leftish than the Protestants in Geneva, Neuchatel (and Vaud!, where lots of traditional UDC-farmers have been replaced by internationalistic buinessmen) - albeit not in Jura. German-catholic InnerCH has partly other reasons, also perhaps the Bernina-valley. Of course, both confessions are nowadays rarely more than tradition&folklore. Reformism has been - apart from American sects - alive only in the mountainous regions (upperBern, Glarus, Graubünden). The fate of Catholic faith being not very different. I asked someone from the Statistical Office and he promised to provide the cath.-prot. numbers as soon as possible (but only on a district level). |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 26, 2018 10:58:37 GMT
I am a fan of Ticino, though find Lugano a bit too much for my liking - prefer Bellinzona. Ticino's fortunes have improved, it's true, though much of that new-found prosperity seems to be in/near Lugano..? I wonder if the new railway tunnels will in the long-run help or hinder... on the one hand, the canton is now well-connected with the rest of the Confederation... on the other hand, Milan-Zurich are now (or are about to be) so well connected that Lugano's role may be undermined? I know the Ticino region well and I am astonished to come across someone who actually likes Bellizona and prefers it to other places. what on earth have you found to like about it? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 26, 2018 13:05:20 GMT
I am a fan of Ticino, though find Lugano a bit too much for my liking - prefer Bellinzona. Ticino's fortunes have improved, it's true, though much of that new-found prosperity seems to be in/near Lugano..? I wonder if the new railway tunnels will in the long-run help or hinder... on the one hand, the canton is now well-connected with the rest of the Confederation... on the other hand, Milan-Zurich are now (or are about to be) so well connected that Lugano's role may be undermined? I know the Ticino region well and I am astonished to come across someone who actually likes Bellizona and prefers it to other places. what on earth have you found to like about it? I have to say, I wasn't that impressed by Bellinzona either. |
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Post by westmercian on Sept 26, 2018 14:02:05 GMT
 What's wrong with it?? Okay, it's not by a lake or anything, so not "impressive" in a landscape setting, but does have its historic attractions and a pleasant enough city centre. Lugano is for me far too busy/touristy. Fine if you like that, but my order of preferences of the three main cities in Ticino are: Bellinzona, Locarno, Lugano. I guess a typical tourist may rate them in the reverse order! |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 7, 2018 18:30:49 GMT
Inner-CH consists of 7 cantons with 43 ministers.
Since the election today in Zug the left parties have only 1 minister left (from SPS in Uri).
Zug's government (the 2 left parties nominated 2 candidates, what was probably too much):
7 ministers,
3 (+1) CVP
2 SVP
2 FDP
0 (-1) GPS
Zug's parliament will be a little bit less (mid)righty in future:
80 seats,
21 ( -1) CVP
18 ( -1) SVP
17 ( -1) FDP
11 (+1) GPS
09 (+2) SPS
04 ( 0) GLP
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 7, 2018 18:35:59 GMT
Inner-CH consists of 7 cantons with 43 ministers. Since the election today in Zug the left parties have only 1 minister left (from SPS in Uri). Zug's government (the 2 left parties nominated 2 candidates, what was probably too much) : 7 ministers, 3 (+1) CVP 2 SVP 2 FDP 0 (-1) GPS Zug's parliament will be a little bit less (mid)righty in future: 80 seats, 21 ( -1) CVP 18 ( -1) SVP 17 ( -1) FDP 11 (+1) GPS 09 (+2) SPS 04 ( 0) GLP What surprised me is that no Swiss calls Glarus Glarus in normal conversation, but rather Glarnerland. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 7, 2018 18:38:41 GMT
Inner-CH consists of 7 cantons with 43 ministers. Since the election today in Zug the left parties have only 1 minister left (from SPS in Uri). Zug's government (the 2 left parties nominated 2 candidates, what was probably too much) : 7 ministers, 3 (+1) CVP 2 SVP 2 FDP 0 (-1) GPS Zug's parliament will be a little bit less (mid)righty in future: 80 seats, 21 ( -1) CVP 18 ( -1) SVP 17 ( -1) FDP 11 (+1) GPS 09 (+2) SPS 04 ( 0) GLP What surprised me is that no Swiss calls Glarus Glarus in normal conversation, but rather Glarnerland. Perhaps in order to help foreigners, who would otherwise be irritated, where the "Glarner" belonged to? |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 12, 2018 7:38:30 GMT
Canton Zug:  Gains&losses:  +3.6% (+3.9% incl. the GreenLiberals) isn't too bad in CH's Delaware (minimal CorporationTaxes). |
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seanf
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Post by seanf on Oct 12, 2018 8:08:26 GMT
I haven't been to Ticino for 13 years, but I'm amazed it could ever have had a reputation for poverty.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 12, 2018 14:36:54 GMT
I haven't been to Ticino for 13 years, but I'm amazed it could ever have had a reputation for poverty. Oh yes, there even existed jokes on Ticini working in restCH (by far not as many as for Valais, though) and relatives of mine in GR employed some of them. I had to hear from a frequent guest in TI, that their tourism had its best days in the Adenauer-era. Some valleys (in the N&NE) get depopulated, according to the NZZ. Similar to wealthy Geneva and Vaud its/his economical politics has been quite left: Vivid TradeUnions (i.e. strikes being not uncommon), LegaT. partly left-populists (like MCG), FDP rather etatists. |
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What's wrong with it?? Okay, it's not by a lake or anything, so not "impressive" in a landscape setting, but does have its historic attractions and a pleasant enough city centre.