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Post by beesknee5 on Mar 2, 2018 13:07:48 GMT
Times have changed. Fingerprint recognition banking apps and online verification into the government gateway provide solutions just as/if not more secure than relying on the person coming into the polling station being who they say they are. How do you check a fingerprint on a postal vote? I didn't intend to distract this thread but why would you continue to use postal voting when a person's identity can be identified online to the standard required of banks and government. Electronic transmission using secure modern protocols like TLS & SSO SAML is always going to beat the security of receiving a piece of paper from an unknown source through the post. |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473 
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Post by peterl on Mar 2, 2018 13:10:09 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that people should be forced to vote online with no other option? A significant percentage of the population does not use the internet. Elections must be accessible to everyone.
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Post by andrewp on Mar 2, 2018 13:11:24 GMT
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Post by La Fontaine on Mar 2, 2018 13:11:32 GMT
Times have changed. Fingerprint recognition banking apps and online verification into the government gateway provide solutions just as/if not more secure than relying on the person coming into the polling station being who they say they are. My concern is not about the person being who they say they are - that is probably largely solvable. It's about the person being watched by someone else to make sure they vote the "right way". As I said above, stopping this is why the secret ballot was introduced in the first place, and its still an issue now. All postal voting ran for a few years in Gateshead and was wildly successful in terms of turnout. I always had my doubts, arising from my experience in other areas. This can be illustrated by an anecdote. I called upon an asian lady in a fiercely contested Newcastle by-election. She said she was Labour but didn't know what to do since her husband had died. "He looked after all that", she said. She produced a pile of leaflets etc. which she had kept. Somewhere within them was her postal vote. "I'm illiterate in English" she said. Good job I called! |
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Post by stananson on Mar 2, 2018 13:15:41 GMT
And for those who can't see embedded tweets: Clackmannanshire by-election 1st preferences: SNP: 769 CON: 659 LAB: 493 LIB: 84 GREEN: 74 SNP win on 5th round transfers. UPDATEResults posted on the council website give the Conservative vote as 658. Others unchanged. Linkwww.clacks.gov.uk/council/electionresults/?election=40 |
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Post by markgoodair on Mar 2, 2018 13:18:44 GMT
SNP 37.0%
CON 31.7%
LAB 23.7%
LIB 4.0%
GREEN 3.6%
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Post by La Fontaine on Mar 2, 2018 13:27:44 GMT
And for those who can't see embedded tweets: Clackmannanshire by-election 1st preferences: SNP: 769 CON: 659 LAB: 493 LIB: 84 GREEN: 74 SNP win on 5th round transfers. Even with the absurd Scottish "extra round", that only makes 4 rounds. |
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Post by beesknee5 on Mar 2, 2018 13:36:12 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that people should be forced to vote online with no other option? A significant percentage of the population does not use the internet. Elections must be accessible to everyone. 90% now use the internet. I would also ask what is stopping a local authority from letting the public vote through access terminals in council offices and libraries in the same way they are now able to view their details, make payments, notify changes and apply for benefits/services. All services are moving online and I see no reason why voting shouldn't follow. |
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timmullen1
Labour
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Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Mar 2, 2018 13:38:17 GMT
And for those who can't see embedded tweets: Clackmannanshire by-election 1st preferences: SNP: 769 CON: 659 LAB: 493 LIB: 84 GREEN: 74 SNP win on 5th round transfers. Even with the absurd Scottish "extra round", that only makes 4 rounds. Isn’t five, roughly: Round one - Green excluded and preferences transferred Round two - LD excluded and preferences transferred Round three - Labour excluded and preferences transferred Round four - SNP excluded Round five - Any SNP preferences transferred to Conservative |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,906
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Post by Tony Otim on Mar 2, 2018 13:43:05 GMT
Even with the absurd Scottish "extra round", that only makes 4 rounds. Isn’t five, roughly: Round one - Green excluded and preferences transferred Round two - LD excluded and preferences transferred Round three - Labour excluded and preferences transferred Round four - SNP excluded Round five - Any SNP preferences transferred to Conservative Yes,except you excluded the wrong party in Round four  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 13:43:15 GMT
The SNP won the seat not the Conservatives
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Mar 2, 2018 13:46:52 GMT
The SNP won the seat not the Conservatives Apologies, misread the post with the embedded Tweet. However if you just transpose Conservative and SNP the five stage theory remains? |
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Post by La Fontaine on Mar 2, 2018 13:56:48 GMT
Even with the absurd Scottish "extra round", that only makes 4 rounds. Isn’t five, roughly: Round one - Green excluded and preferences transferred Round two - LD excluded and preferences transferred Round three - Labour excluded and preferences transferred Round four - SNP excluded Round five - Any SNP preferences transferred to Conservative Yes, sorry. Round 1: first preferences Round 2: exclude greens & transfer Round 3: exclude Lib Dems & transfer Round 4: exclude Labour & transfer Round 5: (superfluous) exclude Cons. & transfer |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 2, 2018 13:58:12 GMT
How do you check a fingerprint on a postal vote? I didn't intend to distract this thread but why would you continue to use postal voting when a person's identity can be identified online to the standard required of banks and government. Electronic transmission using secure modern protocols like TLS & SSO SAML is always going to beat the security of receiving a piece of paper from an unknown source through the post. I realise I'm a fossil, but in my experience the main users of postal votes were older voters. Expecting them to use an online, fingerprint-verified system seems a little fanciful. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 2, 2018 13:59:53 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that people should be forced to vote online with no other option? A significant percentage of the population does not use the internet. Elections must be accessible to everyone. There's also the argument that voting is one of the reducing number of communal civic activities undertaken by a significant proportion of the public. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 2, 2018 14:11:45 GMT
How do you check a fingerprint on a postal vote? Either fingerprint dusting powder or specialist kit in the lab. Are such labs commonplace in local government?  |
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 2, 2018 14:40:24 GMT
How do you check a fingerprint on a postal vote? I didn't intend to distract this thread but why would you continue to use postal voting when a person's identity can be identified online to the standard required of banks and government. Electronic transmission using secure modern protocols like TLS & SSO SAML is always going to beat the security of receiving a piece of paper from an unknown source through the post. I take it you didn't watch the video I posted on the previous page - which explains why there are inherent security problems with electronic voting. As for the required standard of banks and government, standard internet banking security systems require each user to have their own security device, which has to be individually set up, after following a verification procedure of some kind. Practically speaking, employing this level of security would require a new security device to be issued to the overwhelming majority of voters every time an election comes around. Elections would become several times more expensive and several times more difficult to run. Yes, it could theoretically be built to be mildly more secure than requiring signature and date of birth verification (but only if we're lucky enough that there are no security holes in any of the software running on the vote counting server). But the very nature of the system means that there is no way to verify that the result is correct. And, let's not forget, postal voting is predominantly used by the demographic that is least likely to have ever used the internet. How is a computer-illiterate housebound granny going to cast her vote under your system? |
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Post by andrew111 on Mar 2, 2018 14:43:16 GMT
Either fingerprint dusting powder or specialist kit in the lab. Are such labs commonplace in local government? Of course they are! I mean my local council doesn't have the resources to refill grit bins more often that once every two years or so, but fingerprint recognition on every postal vote (including dusting it to make sure no fraudster has handled it) is no problem at all! |
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Post by jimboo2017 on Mar 2, 2018 15:02:15 GMT
Are such labs commonplace in local government? Of course they are! I mean my local council doesn't have the resources to refill grit bins more often that once every two years or so, but fingerprint recognition on every postal vote (including dusting it to make sure no fraudster has handled it) is no problem at all! Could earn a few quid removing the hands of those who kicked the bucket |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 2, 2018 15:29:46 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that people should be forced to vote online with no other option? A significant percentage of the population does not use the internet. Elections must be accessible to everyone. There's also the argument that voting is one of the reducing number of communal civic activities undertaken by a significant proportion of the public. I feel that voting should be a serious moment of reflection and introspection. Even now, having first cast a vote in 2003, I have only voted by post once (out of necessity)- I like that moment in the polling station where you are confronted with a choice, and with your own thoughts, with nobody to pressurise or persuade you, and only your own thoughts to draw on. A related thing is that I stick to the family voting tradition, which is that everyone goes down to vote together once they're in from work. |
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