Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2012 21:47:39 GMT
can this get any more funnier
Lib dems split in Wolvo
@colinross1975 - Some LD's may know him
now it's official, and #Apprentice is over, I will tweet - Liberal Democrats on @wolvescouncil split, 2 Lib Dems and 1 Independent Lib Dem
Councillor Richard Whitehouse - he was only re-elected two weeks ago!
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Post by marksenior on May 17, 2012 9:19:42 GMT
can this get any more funnier Indeed it can . Labour councillor in Tower Hamlets in custody after allegedly making death threats at yesterday's council meeting . |
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Post by benny5bellys on May 17, 2012 13:01:25 GMT
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Post by dizz on May 17, 2012 13:08:23 GMT
can this get any more funnier Indeed it can . Labour councillor in Tower Hamlets in custody after allegedly making death threats at yesterday's council meeting . The more frequent the LD defections the more defensive the response.  |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 17, 2012 13:11:14 GMT
That would be James Doyle who is around here posting as jamesdoyle and announced it himself a week or so back. |
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Post by marksenior on May 17, 2012 14:00:48 GMT
As James is actually my County Councillor and I voted for him in 2009 to get him elected as a LibDem , I have a prime interest in this matter .
He will be much happier as a member of the Greens as long as they never achieve power and have to take difficult decisions and make difficult choices .
his chances of retaining his seat next year as a Green is zero and his action will make a Conservative win in the ward a certainty .
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Post by benny5bellys on May 17, 2012 14:01:39 GMT
I am clearly a bit slow today
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Post by solihullratepayer on May 17, 2012 14:22:59 GMT
The deputy leader of Solihull's Lib Dem group has left and joined the Greens. Son & former councillor also jumped ship with him.. www.solihullgreenparty.org.uk/was informed of this Tuesday evening. errmmm very odd indeed! Really cannot see Andy retaining his seat in 2014! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 16:22:10 GMT
As James is actually my County Councillor and I voted for him in 2009 to get him elected as a LibDem , I have a prime interest in this matter . He will be much happier as a member of the Greens as long as they never achieve power and have to take difficult decisions and make difficult choices . his chances of retaining his seat next year as a Green is zero and his action will make a Conservative win in the ward a certainty . Harsh, Mark, harsh Actually, my chances of winning Pier are higher than 0%, though (currently) lower than 50%. I would point out that when I took on Pier for the LibDems in 2008/9, it was on the understanding that it was an unwinnable seat for us, and that I would receive no help - in fact, I discouraged it, as I wanted LibDems to work and win elsewhere. I tried some new ideas of mine, which paid off, and I have some more new ideas to try this time which may also pay off - we shall see. What will make it a Conservative certainty is whether or not the LibDems stand against me; as it's clear to the LibDems that I'm standing and campaigning, and that if I win I will support them in the CLC and in County Hall, the rest is up to them. Based on this year's results, a LibDem in Pier will be likely to come third, and in danger of coming fourth. The LibDems are going to be stretched next year, hoping to hold Broadwater with Ann Barlow standing for the Cons, and trying to take Durrington & Salvington from Nikki Waight. It's going to be an interesting campaign, particularly given what I'm hearing about possible Tory candidates. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 16:40:12 GMT
Would just like to welcome James to the Greens and wish him all the best. For my own branch a couple of Lib Dem cllrs defecting to us really got us in gear and actually working properly. It'll be a tall order to hold the seat in 1 year, but good luck.
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Post by marksenior on May 17, 2012 17:31:01 GMT
As James is actually my County Councillor and I voted for him in 2009 to get him elected as a LibDem , I have a prime interest in this matter . He will be much happier as a member of the Greens as long as they never achieve power and have to take difficult decisions and make difficult choices . his chances of retaining his seat next year as a Green is zero and his action will make a Conservative win in the ward a certainty . Harsh, Mark, harsh Actually, my chances of winning Pier are higher than 0%, though (currently) lower than 50%. I would point out that when I took on Pier for the LibDems in 2008/9, it was on the understanding that it was an unwinnable seat for us, and that I would receive no help - in fact, I discouraged it, as I wanted LibDems to work and win elsewhere. I tried some new ideas of mine, which paid off, and I have some more new ideas to try this time which may also pay off - we shall see. What will make it a Conservative certainty is whether or not the LibDems stand against me; as it's clear to the LibDems that I'm standing and campaigning, and that if I win I will support them in the CLC and in County Hall, the rest is up to them. Based on this year's results, a LibDem in Pier will be likely to come third, and in danger of coming fourth. The LibDems are going to be stretched next year, hoping to hold Broadwater with Ann Barlow standing for the Cons, and trying to take Durrington & Salvington from Nikki Waight. It's going to be an interesting campaign, particularly given what I'm hearing about possible Tory candidates. Do not wish to start a personal argument on here with you despite your betrayal of those who worked and voted for you including myself but I will do everything in my power to ensure that there is a LD candidate for me to vote for next May even if it is myself and if by some mischance there is not I would have to vote Conservative for the first time in my life . It is against the interests of anyone in Worthing that an opportunist gets elected in Worthing as a Green . |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2012 17:39:52 GMT
Do not wish to start a personal argument on here with you despite your betrayal - a bit like how I feel about the Libdems, especially Nick Clegg, in the coalition - wow. Just, wow. - anyone in Worthing? I think there are quite a few who'd disagree with that. Well, I think that someone defecting to a ruling group, or from a small group to a larger group, can be described as an opportunist, but really the only opportunity I've given myself is of building something viable up from scratch, so that's a bit of a miss, really, isn't it Mark. |
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Post by dizz on May 17, 2012 19:03:04 GMT
Do not wish to start a personal argument on here with you despite your betrayal - a bit like how I feel about the Libdems, especially Nick Clegg, in the coalition - wow. Just, wow. - anyone in Worthing? I think there are quite a few who'd disagree with that. Well, I think that someone defecting to a ruling group, or from a small group to a larger group, can be described as an opportunist, but really the only opportunity I've given myself is of building something viable up from scratch, so that's a bit of a miss, really, isn't it Mark. James, all the best for next year & if you can encourage Mark to stand too I think the campaign could go national with supporters coming in for you from far and wide.  |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on May 17, 2012 19:11:58 GMT
Do not wish to start a personal argument on here with you despite your betrayal of those who worked and voted for you including myself but I will do everything in my power to ensure that there is a LD candidate for me to vote for next May even if it is myself and if by some mischance there is not I would have to vote Conservative for the first time in my life . It is against the interests of anyone in Worthing that an opportunist gets elected in Worthing as a Green . That's a nice try, but I think with some extra work you could be even more OTT. How about, "I don't want to start a personal argument with you, but your mother's a whore"? It'd be a great conversation starter at parties. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on May 20, 2012 13:59:40 GMT
Ok. Seeing as so many of these defections are going from my party elsewhere at the moment and are saying it's because of the coalition they should give their response to this very simple statement of fact.
We as a party promote and want PR for all elections. PR almost always results in coalitions. The last general election had a FPTP result like most PR elections and we went into the only sustainable coalition available (which I can understand isn't to all peoples taste, it certainly wouldn't have been my ideal coalition given a choice). Such coalition results in compromises and choices (good or bad) for both/all parties. So for those defectors, do you believe in PR and coalitions or not and if so, why leave a party that's trying to make one work and (to varying degrees) is getting something out of it? As Crimson King said on a previous thread, going to conference bolstered his feeling that he was not out of tune with the rest of the membership, it is the leadership he is out of tune with. But our party more than the others, the leaderhip is not the party.
I hate some of this governments policies and I will not defend them (tuition fees and free schools/academies for example). But this is a coalition where you never get all your like and you have to put up with some rubbish (and some of our ministers are not helping) and it won't last forever. I can only presume as well that those people who left because we went into coalition with the Tories would have preferred a one party Tory government because that was the only other option.
I suspect it will be interesting how many of those who have left try to return when (especially the ones who scuttled off to Labour) we are in opposition to a Labour government. They may well not be very welcome.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2012 15:00:57 GMT
I suspect it will be interesting how many of those who have left try to return when (especially the ones who are scuttled off to Labour) we are in opposition to a Labour government. They may well not be very welcome. Quite. To defect once may be careless, twice however .....  |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,916
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Post by The Bishop on May 20, 2012 15:03:29 GMT
Churchill got away with it, mind |
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Post by marksenior on May 20, 2012 15:33:36 GMT
Do not wish to start a personal argument on here with you despite your betrayal of those who worked and voted for you including myself but I will do everything in my power to ensure that there is a LD candidate for me to vote for next May even if it is myself and if by some mischance there is not I would have to vote Conservative for the first time in my life . It is against the interests of anyone in Worthing that an opportunist gets elected in Worthing as a Green . That's a nice try, but I think with some extra work you could be even more OTT. How about, "I don't want to start a personal argument with you, but your mother's a whore"? It'd be a great conversation starter at parties. Sorry but the shear affrontery of Mr Doyle simply beggars belief . He betrays those who campaigned , canvassed and telled for him by running away at the first whiff of having to make a difficult decision when in power . He then says that if the LD's don't put up a candidate against him standing as a Green next year then he has a chance of winning . It is not Worthing LD's who owe Mr Doyle anything , the reverse is the case as they supplied him with a platform to demonstrate the size of his own ego . |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on May 20, 2012 20:40:19 GMT
I find myself in rare position of having to defend Mark Senior. He might be tedious, pompous, overly partisan and wrong on most political matters but on the subject of defections he has been principled and consistent for many years. He has every right to call James out on betraying those who worked and voted for him.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 20, 2012 23:18:12 GMT
I agree. I have my issues with Mark too. I think the issue is here is not so much the defection itself (and as a non-LD I wouldn't intrude on private grief, but do agree generally that it is a betrayal in many ways*) but the suggestion that the LDs should somehow feel obliged to stand down in his favour while he seeks re-election under the colours of another party - that is unbelievable chutzpah
*I say in many ways, because I do accept that in many ways individuals elected in a FPTP system enjoy something of a personal mandate. This is largely theoretical admittedly, but not entirely. For example I voted for Nick Budgen in 1992 not so much because he was the Conservative candidate (I would have been minded to vote against many other Conservative candidates that year) but because he was Nick Budgen and I knew that he would articulate my own positions on very many issues in the course of the next parliament (which he did). Had he, during the course of that parliement, resigned the Conservative whip and sat as a member of the Referendum party for example (as George Gardiner did) I would not have seen this as any kind of betrayal - far from it in fact. It would have represented a better way of fulfilling the mandate that I had personally given him (obviously in the rather unlikely event he had defected to Labour or the LDs it would be a little different). The situation is different of course in list systems and here I find myself now represented in the European parliament by a Conservative MEP who owes his place in that parliament to myself and others voting for the UKIP list. That is an absolute travesty
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