|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 30, 2017 23:49:08 GMT
You mean, general elections which the Lib Dems don't win don't matter, and local by-elections which the Lib Dems sometimes do win do. Fair dos. Personally I don't like losing seats at any level, but I'd swap a landslide defeat in a local by-election in Gosport for a narrow gain of a Tory seat in a general election any day. That doesn't make me cynical, it just means that I have a set of priorities. Congratulations to the LDs on their wins tonight - is Torrington counting tonight? Not remotely what he said. Local v national is not an either/or (which is a lot closer to what was said.) |
|
|
|
Post by maidstonian on Nov 30, 2017 23:50:26 GMT
North, Maidstone LD GAIN from Conservatives Maidstone BC North Lib Dem 719 Con 364 Lab 270 Green 47 Turnout 22.1% |
|
|
|
Post by andrewteale on Nov 30, 2017 23:50:42 GMT
Raw votes in Bridgemary North:
LD 644
Lab 255
C 212
|
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Nov 30, 2017 23:51:11 GMT
I mean I think even taking into consideration national politics and all that we should really have won in Sheffield Hallam... I think you have to take into account regional swing. Lib Dems were down everywhere in Yorkshire.. And Mulholland kept the Tory tactical vote and still lost. It is worth pointing out that who won in Sheffield Hallam also did not affect who formed the government, and was extremely unlikely to.. Both true. But its fair to say that the thing which caused the LibDem vote to collapse in much of the country at national elections (theyve always been able to win in some localities) was being part of Government. |
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,021
|
Post by Khunanup on Nov 30, 2017 23:54:36 GMT
You mean, general elections which the Lib Dems don't win don't matter, and local by-elections which the Lib Dems sometimes do win do. Fair dos. Personally I don't like losing seats at any level, but I'd swap a landslide defeat in a local by-election in Gosport for a narrow gain of a Tory seat in a general election any day. That doesn't make me cynical, it just means that I have a set of priorities. Congratulations to the LDs on their wins tonight - is Torrington counting tonight? My comments were aimed squarely at Mike who has expressed almost Stalin levels of cynicism (I'm not comparing his politics to Stalin, just the attitude) in terms of political expediencies on here recently. I've said on here many times before that our long hard path back is built on the back of rebuilding our local government base so it's a question of priorities, values and strategy. That's why these things matter to us but appear to be semi-relevant to you. I happen to think that you're storing up enormous problems for the future by prioritising what you are but that's your look out. |
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312 
|
Post by maxque on Nov 30, 2017 23:55:23 GMT
North, Maidstone LD GAIN from Conservatives Maidstone BC North Lib Dem 719 Con 364 Lab 270 Green 47 Turnout 22.1% LD 51.4% (+8.4) Con 26.0% (+2.1) Lab 19.3% (+6.1) Grn 3.4% (0.0) |
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,766
Member is Online
|
Post by mboy on Nov 30, 2017 23:59:06 GMT
^ How could those figures be a gain from Con?
|
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
|
Post by maxque on Dec 1, 2017 0:01:35 GMT
^ How could those figures be a gain from Con? Seat voted Conservative on GE day 2015, but voted LD at the last local election (2016). |
|
iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 11,438
|
Post by iain on Dec 1, 2017 0:01:37 GMT
^ How could those figures be a gain from Con? The changes from 2015, when this seat was up: LD - 719 - 51.4% (+20.1%) Con - 364 - 26.0% (-6.0%) Lab - 270 - 19.3% (+8.0%) Grn - 47 - 3.4% (-2.1%) |
|
|
|
Post by johnloony on Dec 1, 2017 0:03:28 GMT
^ How could those figures be a gain from Con? The change in voting percentages are from 2016 (when as Lib Dem was elected) but the by-election was caused by the resignation of a Conservative who was elected in 2015 (I think). |
|
Sharon
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 2,564 
|
Post by Sharon on Dec 1, 2017 0:06:35 GMT
Lib Dems complete a clean sweep with this.
|
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
|
Post by maxque on Dec 1, 2017 0:06:39 GMT
Torrington, Torridge
LD GAIN from UKIP
|
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
|
Post by maxque on Dec 1, 2017 0:07:34 GMT
Torrington
LD 701
Ind 180
Con 159
Grn 76
UKIP 49
|
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Dec 1, 2017 0:08:05 GMT
You mean, general elections which the Lib Dems don't win don't matter, and local by-elections which the Lib Dems sometimes do win do. Fair dos. Personally I don't like losing seats at any level, but I'd swap a landslide defeat in a local by-election in Gosport for a narrow gain of a Tory seat in a general election any day. That doesn't make me cynical, it just means that I have a set of priorities. Congratulations to the LDs on their wins tonight - is Torrington counting tonight? My comments were aimed squarely at Mike who has expressed almost Stalin levels of cynicism (I'm not comparing his politics to Stalin, just the attitude) in terms of political expediencies on here recently. I've said on here many times before that our long hard path back is built on the back of rebuilding our local government base so it's a question of priorities, values and strategy. That's why these things matter to us but appear to be semi-relevant to you. I happen to think that you're storing up enormous problems for the future by prioritising what you are but that's your look out. Local government has hardly any power, can't raise its own money, and is largely told what it has to provide as core responsibilities. Back in the days of the GLC and the new urban left, it could have been argued that local government was a key way of bringing forth a more socialist agenda and radical change - but thats just not the case any more. Many people now decide not to be councillors because they just can't see what real change they could make. It may be again in the future, but I certainly wouldn't restore power to councils given the way they are currently organised. They just aren't capable of taking on that sort of responsibility at the moment. Its not their fault, but sure, I am cynical about local councils because I've seen the sort of thing that people become excited about locally, and its really very small beer - while the Government continues to cut funding year after year. I'd like much more policy-focused elected bodies, where councillors actually make decisions and have proper control of their officers (at the moment they run rings around them), and I'd prefer the casework side of things to be dealt with by a greatly strengthened, properly local advice and ombudsman service, with resources, who could certainly have the power to direct councils to carry out their responsibilities. Councillors could have a role in its governance. In my view councillors are absolutely useless at doing casework, on the whole, and often use it for political ends to get re-elected. Given they have no training in such matters its hardly surprising. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew111 on Dec 1, 2017 0:09:18 GMT
I think you have to take into account regional swing. Lib Dems were down everywhere in Yorkshire.. And Mulholland kept the Tory tactical vote and still lost. It is worth pointing out that who won in Sheffield Hallam also did not affect who formed the government, and was extremely unlikely to.. Both true. But its fair to say that the thing which caused the LibDem vote to collapse in much of the country at national elections (theyve always been able to win in some localities) was being part of Government. Politics is becoming more volatile all over the place. Liberals/Lib Dems maintained quite a stable vote for 4 decades up until going into government, and going into a government was I agree a big reason for the collapse. In the past the two biggest Parties have managed to avoid such collapses because of a secure class-based core vote. I think Labour is losing that core vote and the current 40% for Labour could erode very quickly if Labour get into government again. The object lesson is the French Socialists, who dropped to 9.5% in 2017 after winning in 2012. |
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Dec 1, 2017 0:11:35 GMT
Both true. But its fair to say that the thing which caused the LibDem vote to collapse in much of the country at national elections (theyve always been able to win in some localities) was being part of Government. Politics is becoming more volatile all over the place. Liberals/Lib Dems maintained quite a stable vote for 4 decades up until going into government, and going into a government was I agree a big reason for the collapse. In the past the two biggest Parties have managed to avoid such collapses because of a secure class-based core vote. I think Labour is losing that core vote and the current 40% for Labour could erode very quickly if Labour get into government again. The object lesson is the French Socialists, who dropped to 9.5% in 2017 after winning in 2012. If Labour govern like the French Socialists under Hollande, they'd deserve to. |
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 1, 2017 0:12:07 GMT
LD 57.9% Lab 22.9% (-49.1) Con 19.2% (-8.8) Is a swing of over 50% a record?? If it was, the new benchmark is 60%. A good night for us, and goodnight from me. |
|
|
|
Post by Robert Waller on Dec 1, 2017 0:13:09 GMT
What an extraordinary night for the Lib Dems.
Absolute majorities in all four contests.
I don't think anyone would have predicted that.
I know we didn't ...
|
|
|
|
Post by andrew111 on Dec 1, 2017 0:13:09 GMT
Torrington LD 701 Ind 180 Con 159 Grn 76 UKIP 49 Very good night for the Lib Dems, anyway. Extraordinary swings... Torrington is extremely poor for the Greens as well, after some good recent results. I expected them to win that one |
|
|
|
Post by andrew111 on Dec 1, 2017 0:14:19 GMT
Politics is becoming more volatile all over the place. Liberals/Lib Dems maintained quite a stable vote for 4 decades up until going into government, and going into a government was I agree a big reason for the collapse. In the past the two biggest Parties have managed to avoid such collapses because of a secure class-based core vote. I think Labour is losing that core vote and the current 40% for Labour could erode very quickly if Labour get into government again. The object lesson is the French Socialists, who dropped to 9.5% in 2017 after winning in 2012. If Labour govern like the French Socialists under Hollande, they'd deserve to. Good prediction!  |
|
