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Post by middleenglander on Oct 27, 2017 10:38:07 GMT
Derbyshire Dales, Ashbourne South - Conservative hold | Party | 2017 votes | 2017 share | since 2015 "top" | since 2015 "average" | since 2011 "top" | since 2011 "average" | Conservative | 495 | 46.2% | -7.6% | -6.4% | -19.3% | -15.0% | Liberal Democrat | 334 | 31.2% | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | from nowhere | Labour | 242 | 22.6% | -1.9% | -2.5% | -11.9% | -16.2% | UKIP |
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| -21.7% | -22.2% |
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| Total votes | 1,071 |
| 44% | 45% | 80% |
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Swing not meaningful Council now 28 Conservative, 5 Labour, 3 Liberal Democrat, 2 Independent, 1 Vacant Pretty sure the percentages are wrong here, there was a Green but not UKIP last time in 2015 Thanks now corrected. Figures are right but Green not UKIP in 2015 |
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Post by andrew111 on Oct 27, 2017 10:38:21 GMT
I am afraid that is head in sand stuff! Demographic flight from poor to rich areas has had a far bigger effect on comprehensive schools than the presence of one grammar school in all of Kirklees. HGS has pupils who arrive every day by taxi from north Leeds. It is a small school with a vast effective catchment area. Meanwhile if you take Leeds, which has been all comprehensive from the start, the kids from the poor areas who might be creamed off by a grammar school are already gone as their parents moved to the suburbs a generation ago, or got sent to private schools. Once upon a time the Tories used to win council seats in inner Leeds in Holbeck and Beeston. Now that is unthinkable, and the comprehensive system has accelerated this demographic flight and ghettoisation. No. Not the comprehensive system. So called "parental choice" which favours the sharp elbowed. Well, how are you going to restrict parental choice? 1) Close all the private schools? (anyone REALLY serious about levelling the playing field would do this long before closing the grammar schools) 2) Stop people from moving house? 3) Randomly bus people from middle class areas to schools in deprived areas (probably using some sort of lottery?) 4) gerrymander the catchment areas with regular changes to keep parents on the hop? As far as I know all the above are far too unpopular with middle class Labour voters to ever become Labour policy... We could of course have a revolution... But if it was a Soviet revolution we would have a strongly selective grammar school education system, designed to find the best talents from all walks of life and in all subject areas and train them in a specialist way... BTW I know HGS mainly because my next door neighbour (a very ordinary lower middle class chap) and a good friend (researcher originally from Russia) have children there. Neither live in the actual preferred admission area which is a good deal more deprived. I am told that HGS has a very interesting ethnic mix with <50% "ethnic British" children. I suspect these are the sons and daughters of immigrants and of the British Asian community who see HGS as a big step towards success that they feel might elude their children if they went to the local comprehensive. Jo Cox is another person who clearly benefitted from going to HGS, and may or may not have done as well at the local schools in Batley. |
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Post by andrew111 on Oct 27, 2017 10:41:16 GMT
Not on 2015 it isn't. 25.1% to 22.6% amounts to -2.5%. It's down 9.3% on 2011 - but that's Labour's high water mark, helped enormously by being the only non-Tory party contesting. Sorry, I should have made it clear that by "our" I was referring to the combined Conservative-Labour vote share. That's my fault entirely - I wasn't at all clear . Whilst I am currently a supporter of the Labour Party, my first political loyalty will always be to ensuring the continuance of the Conservative-Labour duopoly and politically everything else is secondary (by a long way) to that overarching and extremely important objective. I guess you will be upset about the Sussex result as well Jigger... But heartened by Hereford... |
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Post by Robert Waller on Oct 27, 2017 11:08:16 GMT
Back on topic ...
Batley result has been on Britain elects for the last 20 minutes.
Labour (and hempie) win!
I am not at my computer so could someone else put up the details?
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Post by timokane on Oct 27, 2017 11:10:31 GMT
Batley East (Kirklees) result:
LAB: 77.0% (+14.1)
CON: 12.9% (-13.0)
IND: 4.1% (+4.1)
LDEM: 4.0% (-1.5)
GRN: 2.0% (-2.2)
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 27, 2017 11:25:40 GMT
I increasingly think that while the comprehensive system is superior to a grammar/secondary modern system it is not the answer to all our educational woes. It seems that whatever school you put WC children in, if the backing isn't there at home, the difference in terms of outcomes will be slight. As andrew111 says this is evidenced in Kirklees where WC British Asian children and WC White British children, despite coming from households with very similar incomes, go down very different roads in terms of academic achievement and social mobility. So it seems like the battle is not with the system as much as the attitudes of the parents and through what prism they bring their children up to see education. I know it sounds a bit nanny state but maybe provide poorer parents with book tokens for children's books or have compulsory trips to the library for all new parents. Which is why systems which prioritise parental choice will always benefit the sharp elbowed.... |
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Post by andrew111 on Oct 27, 2017 11:41:41 GMT
I increasingly think that while the comprehensive system is superior to a grammar/secondary modern system it is not the answer to all our educational woes. It seems that whatever school you put WC children in, if the backing isn't there at home, the difference in terms of outcomes will be slight. As andrew111 says this is evidenced in Kirklees where WC British Asian children and WC White British children, despite coming from households with very similar incomes, go down very different roads in terms of academic achievement and social mobility. So it seems like the battle is not with the system as much as the attitudes of the parents and through what prism they bring their children up to see education. I know it sounds a bit nanny state but maybe provide poorer parents with book tokens for children's books or have compulsory trips to the library for all new parents. Sensible stuff Benjil! The failings start with societal attitudes where getting on Big Brother or playing the lottery is seen as a more likely way to success for your children than getting a good education. Really it is "Brave New World" coming to pass, where all but a tiny elite are encouraged to engage in pointless activities designed to keep them happy, and keeping them away from questioning what is going on by brain washing. Many years ago I worked at British Steel labs in Sheffield between school and university. The foundry was run by a 50 year old guy from Attercliffe (home to steelworkers in those days). One day he recited a good chunk of "Horatius on the Bridge" to me, a poem my mother (also from a working class background, strong Cheshire accent, but brilliant mathematician) was also very keen on. Education for its own sake was once seen as a good thing by all classes. My Russian colleague was born in the Soviet Union but grew up through the chaos of the 1990's. But she said that in her school if any child was not doing their homework their parents would be called in for a serious interview with the Headteacher and if they persisted, publicly shamed in the community. Schools need to interact very proactively with parents to break down these attitudes (as well as all the terrible sexual stereotyping which I hate so much! There was a recent article I saw which highlighted how many more girls in today's Russia go into science, maths and computing careers than in Britain). I am really torn between libertarian instincts that say people should be left to get on with their own lives, and the obvious and extreme harm (IMO) being done to our society by a value system being picked up from television and consumerism |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,952
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 27, 2017 11:47:35 GMT
Ashbourne South is a Conservative hold with the Liberal Democrats second and said to have nearly won. Wrongly, as it happened. Always interesting how these false rumours gain circulation. |
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Post by andrew111 on Oct 27, 2017 11:48:33 GMT
I increasingly think that while the comprehensive system is superior to a grammar/secondary modern system it is not the answer to all our educational woes. It seems that whatever school you put WC children in, if the backing isn't there at home, the difference in terms of outcomes will be slight. As andrew111 says this is evidenced in Kirklees where WC British Asian children and WC White British children, despite coming from households with very similar incomes, go down very different roads in terms of academic achievement and social mobility. So it seems like the battle is not with the system as much as the attitudes of the parents and through what prism they bring their children up to see education. I know it sounds a bit nanny state but maybe provide poorer parents with book tokens for children's books or have compulsory trips to the library for all new parents. Which is why systems which prioritise parental choice will always benefit the sharp elbowed.... We need to make more people sharp elbowed. The passive acceptance of the unacceptable is the big class divide in Britain. It takes a tragedy like Grenfell Tower to break it down.. But Mike how would you reduce parental choice, realistically, in a comprehensive school system, in our populist democracy? |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 27, 2017 11:54:08 GMT
I dont believe in populist democracy.
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312 
Member is Online
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Post by maxque on Oct 27, 2017 11:54:18 GMT
Ashbourne South is a Conservative hold with the Liberal Democrats second and said to have nearly won. Wrongly, as it happened. Always interesting how these false rumours gain circulation. It's the local LDs themselves who claimed to have nearly won. |
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Post by liverpoolliberal on Oct 27, 2017 11:54:53 GMT
Batley East (Kirklees) result: LAB: 77.0% (+14.1) CON: 12.9% (-13.0) IND: 4.1% (+4.1) LDEM: 4.0% (-1.5) GRN: 2.0% (-2.2) I don't get those percentage changes, the last result I see is: Lab 69.8% Con 11.9% Ind 10.2% LD 5.0% Grn 3.1% Making the changes Lab +7.2 Con +1.0 Ind +4.1 LD -1.0 Grn -1.1 |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 27, 2017 11:55:06 GMT
Ashbourne South is a Conservative hold with the Liberal Democrats second and said to have nearly won. Wrongly, as it happened. Always interesting how these false rumours gain circulation. Sadly the only piece of information available about the byelection result immediately after it was declared was Lib Dem hype. |
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Post by jigger on Oct 27, 2017 12:11:38 GMT
Sorry, I should have made it clear that by "our" I was referring to the combined Conservative-Labour vote share. That's my fault entirely - I wasn't at all clear . Whilst I am currently a supporter of the Labour Party, my first political loyalty will always be to ensuring the continuance of the Conservative-Labour duopoly and politically everything else is secondary (by a long way) to that overarching and extremely important objective. I guess you will be upset about the Sussex result as well Jigger... But heartened by Hereford... It's interesting whether one looks at vote share or vote share change for these purposes. Vote share is obviously important, but as I'm an ambitious person and want to see, so far as possible, continual improvement, I've always tended to look much more at vote share change rather than just vote share. What I never do is look at number of seats won, as I think that is much less important than either vote share or vote share change. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 27, 2017 12:23:13 GMT
I increasingly think that while the comprehensive system is superior to a grammar/secondary modern system it is not the answer to all our educational woes. It seems that whatever school you put WC children in, if the backing isn't there at home, the difference in terms of outcomes will be slight. As andrew111 says this is evidenced in Kirklees where WC British Asian children and WC White British children, despite coming from households with very similar incomes, go down very different roads in terms of academic achievement and social mobility. So it seems like the battle is not with the system as much as the attitudes of the parents and through what prism they bring their children up to see education. I know it sounds a bit nanny state but maybe provide poorer parents with book tokens for children's books or have compulsory trips to the library for all new parents. Interesting points, and of course politicians never like to blame the parents for fear of losing votes. |
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Post by stananson on Oct 27, 2017 12:25:56 GMT
Batley East, Kirklees The results of the election are as follows: Labour Party Candidate, Habiban Nisa Zaman – 2640 votes Conservative Candidate, Paul Young – 443 votes Liberal Democrat Candidate, John Robert Bloom – 136 votes The Local Independents – Heavy Woollen District Candidate, Aleks Lukic – 140 votes The Green Party Candidate – David Michael Smith – 70 votes kirkleestogether.co.uk/2017/10/27/batley-east-by-election-results/ |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 27, 2017 12:39:21 GMT
Another relatively poor result in East Grinstead (though it is churlish to complain too much when you get more than 70% of the vote). This has been the worst election night for some time for people of my political viewpoint. You mean there are others ? !  |
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Post by andrew111 on Oct 27, 2017 12:52:37 GMT
Wrongly, as it happened. Always interesting how these false rumours gain circulation. Sadly the only piece of information available about the byelection result immediately after it was declared was Lib Dem hype. Well, I think when you have gone from nowhere and not even standing for over 6 years to 31.2%, you are allowed a little bit of hype.... I think the Lib Dems in Ashbourne are entitled to think that a bit more effort would have given them the seat |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 27, 2017 12:53:31 GMT
Sadly the only piece of information available about the byelection result immediately after it was declared was Lib Dem hype. Well, I think when you have gone from nowhere and not even standing for over 6 years to 31.2%, you are allowed a little bit of hype.... I think the Lib Dems in Ashbourne are entitled to think that a bit more effort would have given them the seat If they didn't stand, then they may have had a large latent vote which went unmeasured. |
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Post by jigger on Oct 27, 2017 13:49:57 GMT
Another relatively poor result in East Grinstead (though it is churlish to complain too much when you get more than 70% of the vote). This has been the worst election night for some time for people of my political viewpoint. You mean there are others ? ! Of course - there are probably millions.   |
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