Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 19:00:16 GMT
I am borderline shortsighted
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thetop
Labour
[k4r]
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Post by thetop on Sept 2, 2017 19:52:59 GMT
It does beg what the point of 2 party politics is if it does not produce 'strong government'. I guess that's the consequence of a 2 party democracy with 2 parties that no one wants. Only for it to end up emboldening parties that are even less wanted. |
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Post by jigger on Sept 2, 2017 20:22:55 GMT
But they are in deep deep trouble. The fact that they become more unpopular in 2017 than in 2015, despite there being a gaping hole in the centre and despite being vociferous against Brexit really shows how screwed they are. I have no doubt that there will be Liberals in this country for ever more. Before the election I would have agreed with you that the Liberals would continue politically, but after their utterly dire election result, I have come to the conclusion that the end is nigh for them. I may be wrong of course.I have been around politics long enough to have read (premature) obituaries for all three of the major UK parties; even the Conservatives. Times are hard for us. On the other hand my own constituency, and - I learnt this week - at least one of our neighbouring constituencies, have their highest ever membership. I've never regarded the Liberal Democrats as a major UK party. I think it is clear beyond doubt that, as of 2017, the Liberal Democrats are not a major party, if they ever have been. Since 1945 (at least) there have been only two major parties in the UK: the Conservative Party and the Labour Party. No, but for a party which prides itself on being in the centre ground, it should be deeply worrying that they can't even get double digits in support (considering a majority of people consider themselves in the centre) . This is at an election where,by common consent, the Conservative Party shifted to the right and the Labour Party shifted to the left. I'm not ruling out a Liberal revival but I'm not sure they truly understand how perilously close to their political death the Liberal Democrats are. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 2, 2017 20:57:55 GMT
I have been around politics long enough to have read (premature) obituaries for all three both of the major UK parties; even the Conservatives. Times are hard for us. On the other hand my own constituency, and - I learnt this week - at least one of our neighbouring constituencies, have their highest ever membership. I've never regarded the Liberal Democrats as a major UK party. I think it is clear beyond doubt that, as of 2017, the Liberal Democrats are not a major party, if they ever have been. Since 1945 (at least) there have been only two major parties in the UK: the Conservative Party and the Labour Party. I have amended my post to respect your opinion. (But I think you're wrong. But that's just an opinion too.) |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 2, 2017 21:00:51 GMT
lol her name isn't laura after all! Problem with Jo Swinson is the baggage she has from her coalition days. She couldn't even make a point about how unfair tribunal fees were, rightly so imo, without being roundly mocked few defending their introduction in government. If she were leader she would struggle to win over the 60% of Lib Dem 2010 voters that have voted Labour in 2015 and 2017 with centre left policies without extracts of her coalition days being dragged up again. I carry no lance for either person. I was just suggesting that - rightly or wrongly - if hopes are being pinned on anyone it's on the Member for Dunbartonshire East rather than Oxford West. Personally I'm driven by ideology rather than personality. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 21:58:01 GMT
I'm not sure anyone would say otherwise but the Lib Dems limited success in 2017 sits if only partly with Farron while the Liberals success in the 50s almost certainly sits with Jo Grimmond. It was not the Lib Dems message that hurt them at the ballot but the messenger imo
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Post by tonygreaves on Sept 3, 2017 18:24:32 GMT
The Liberals' success in the 1950s?
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 3, 2017 18:52:47 GMT
The Liberals' success in the 1950s? Torrington? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 3, 2017 21:55:29 GMT
I'm not sure anyone would say otherwise but the Lib Dems limited success in 2017 sits if only partly with Farron while the Liberals success in the 50s almost certainly sits with Jo Grimmond. It was not the Lib Dems message that hurt them at the ballot but the messenger imo Can you define what you mean by "the Liberals success in the 50s"? I know we (Lib Dems) are supposed to regard Saint Jo with awe but I think there's some mythologising going on here ... |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Sept 3, 2017 22:00:55 GMT
I'm not sure anyone would say otherwise but the Lib Dems limited success in 2017 sits if only partly with Farron while the Liberals success in the 50s almost certainly sits with Jo Grimmond. It was not the Lib Dems message that hurt them at the ballot but the messenger imo Can you define what you mean by "the Liberals success in the 50s"? I know we (Lib Dems) are supposed to regard Saint Jo with awe but I think there's some mythologising going on here ... I don't think she was even born at the time. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Sept 3, 2017 22:08:36 GMT
I'm not sure anyone would say otherwise but the Lib Dems limited success in 2017 sits if only partly with Farron while the Liberals success in the 50s almost certainly sits with Jo Grimmond. It was not the Lib Dems message that hurt them at the ballot but the messenger imo I understand what @priceofdawn is saying. It's fair to argue that in 1945 the Liberals looked totally irrelevant, it was a capitalist vs socialist world. In the 50s (OK from 1956) Grimond through sheer bloody hard graft got the ideology of liberalism back to life as a separate tradition from conservatism and socialism. That was a sort of success even if it wasn't reflected electorally for some time. |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
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Post by maxque on Sept 3, 2017 23:05:29 GMT
Can you define what you mean by "the Liberals success in the 50s"? I know we (Lib Dems) are supposed to regard Saint Jo with awe but I think there's some mythologising going on here ... I don't think she was even born at the time. Jo Grimond, not Swinson. |
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Post by froome on Sept 4, 2017 7:05:46 GMT
In Andrew Teale's preview he remarks the area is popular with people travelling into Bristol for work. Maybe that's had an impact. Yes, over the last 10 years, as Bristol's house prices have rocketed, some people have moved out of the city to Weston-super-Mare, where prices are much cheaper. So it is likely that this will be a factor. |
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Post by yellowperil on Sept 4, 2017 7:13:56 GMT
Swinson's greatest asset is being called Jo such is the power of the Grimond myth. It was Grimond who first got me interested in Liberalism back in the time when I was still active within the Labour party, but even so I agree it was a myth. Marching towards the sound of gunfire always sounded a bit like one of those rather mad WW1 generals
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 4, 2017 10:02:02 GMT
I don't think she was even born at the time. Jo Grimond, not Swinson. I think the previous poster was aware of that  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 11:48:14 GMT
I did not know of this internet chess club!
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
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Post by CatholicLeft on Sept 4, 2017 22:03:32 GMT
There's a bloke who goes to our Church who's a member. He loves it and explains it to us all at great depth.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 5, 2017 10:17:42 GMT
I have only played a handful of games online ever.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 12:02:53 GMT
I used to play quite regularly. I got quite good. I was a finalist once
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