|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 13, 2024 15:31:47 GMT
I think it would be best for all concerned, herself included, if this were her last term in parliament, but I agree that at this point returning the whip would be appropriate and proportionate with how other returns of the whip have been dealt with.
|
|
andrea
Non-Aligned
Posts: 7,072
|
Post by andrea on Mar 13, 2024 16:11:27 GMT
I think it would be best for all concerned, herself included, if this were her last term in parliament, but I agree that at this point returning the whip would be appropriate and proportionate with how other returns of the whip have been dealt with. well, yes, the "ideal" situation would be returning her the whip and then her announcing her retirement as a soon-to-be 71 years old.
|
|
andrea
Non-Aligned
Posts: 7,072
|
Post by andrea on Mar 13, 2024 16:35:45 GMT
Labour spokesperson on McDonald: “The investigation concluded that he had not engaged in conduct that was against the party’s rulebook, but reminded him of the importance of elected representatives being mindful, not only of what they say in public, but how their words may be interpreted, especially in reference to controversial or emotive issues. The chief met with Andy following the outcome of the investigation and received assurances that he understands the need to be mindful and about his future conduct"
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 13, 2024 16:50:57 GMT
Labour spokesperson on McDonald: “The investigation concluded that he had not engaged in conduct that was against the party’s rulebook, but reminded him of the importance of elected representatives being mindful, not only of what they say in public, but how their words may be interpreted, especially in reference to controversial or emotive issues. The chief met with Andy following the outcome of the investigation and received assurances that he understands the need to be mindful and about his future conduct" But it is controversial.
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 13, 2024 17:48:24 GMT
I have a strong suspicion Andy McDonald was engaging in a bit of testing the boundaries / pushing at the boundaries. He knew an outright use of "River to the Sea" was likely to get him into trouble so tried to contrive a way to use it that had cover, to win acclaim from the audience and to see how much latitude he would be given. Turns out, not very much latitude - the Starmer Labour Party is very sensitive on discipline in general, almost back to Attlee days.
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Mar 26, 2024 19:46:31 GMT
Question. If Johnny Mercer gets jailed for contempt will he have the whip withdrawn?
Mercer is widely regarded as a good egg. I do not share this view. Reporting of his allegation that British forces committed war crimes and his principled refusal to name his sources habitually fails to offer the possible reason that he is a lying little shit who has invented it all. I think this possibility should be entertained, it being no less plausible than the possibility that no elderly white widow ever told Enoch Powell that she had dog shit shoved through her letter box by black children.
Further question. If somebody told you that UK forces had shot prisoners, would you make it your mission in life to expose the crime, or would decide that the issue of potholes in your constituency was more where you wanted to make your mark?
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 27, 2024 10:17:10 GMT
Is Mercer widely regarded as a good egg? I appreciate I may be in a bubble (by geography as much as politics) but my impression was that his overall vibe was "intensely self-regarding".
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,552
|
Post by The Bishop on Mar 27, 2024 10:29:13 GMT
Those two things are not necessarily completely mutually exclusive tbf.
|
|
ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,026
|
Post by ilerda on Mar 27, 2024 11:39:23 GMT
I suspect that like most of us he's a rather complex character, and that it's a fool's errand to try and judge someone's entire personality from occasional media snapshots and what we read on Twitter.
|
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,246
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 27, 2024 11:49:47 GMT
Is Mercer widely regarded as a good egg? I appreciate I may be in a bubble (by geography as much as politics) but my impression was that his overall vibe was "intensely self-regarding". He is dreadful. I actually thought he was an ok guy, then saw his social media posts which reveal a thin-skinned, foul-mouthed, self-promoting fool. His wife is worse. Mercer, the Veteran's Minister, said his Labour opponent, former Royal Marine Captain Fred Thomas, had "served five minutes in uniform". He served 7 years. It seems that he will care about your service in the armed forces as long as you don't challenge him. I wish Gareth Derrick had stood against him, as it would have been fascinating to see how Mercer, and his wife, would have dealt with a man who served 36 years in the Navy and retired as Commodore Maritime Reserves.
|
|
|
Post by andrewp on Mar 27, 2024 11:58:29 GMT
Is Mercer widely regarded as a good egg? I appreciate I may be in a bubble (by geography as much as politics) but my impression was that his overall vibe was "intensely self-regarding". He is dreadful. I actually thought he was an ok guy, then saw his social media posts which reveal a thin-skinned, foul-mouthed, self-promoting fool. His wife is worse. Mercer, the Veteran's Minister, said his Labour opponent, former Royal Marine Captain Fred Thomas, had "served five minutes in uniform". He served 7 years. It seems that he will care about your service in the armed forces as long as you don't challenge him. I wish Gareth Derrick had stood against him, as it would have been fascinating to see how Mercer, and his wife, would have dealt with a man who served 36 years in the Navy and retired as Commodore Maritime Reserves. I think social media reveals the worst side of a lot of politicians. It really does seem to me to a blight on our politics and I am trying to stop looking at it, as I usually feel more depressed and cynical about politics and politicians after having looked at it, There are MPs on all sides who I think are quite good and then I look at their social media and see something thin skinned and foul mouthed or bitchy or childish. Chris Bryant is top of my list as someone who I rated quite highly , but now rate quite differently.
|
|
|
Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Mar 27, 2024 21:19:11 GMT
Is Mercer widely regarded as a good egg? I appreciate I may be in a bubble (by geography as much as politics) but my impression was that his overall vibe was "intensely self-regarding". I know several ex-military people who think he's decent as a person, but don't agree with his politics. One of these people is an avowed socialist and campaigned for the removal of visa fees for Comonwealth veterans, and apparently Mercer was quite helpful unlike other govt. ministers.
|
|
|
Post by stb12 on Mar 27, 2024 22:12:03 GMT
I think there’s a wide feeling that Mercer does genuinely and passionately care about veterans issues, even if he comes across to many as not that personally likeable
So there can be more than one side to how someone is regarded
|
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,246
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 27, 2024 22:25:36 GMT
I think there’s a wide feeling that Mercer does genuinely and passionately care about veterans issues, even if he comes across to many as not that personally likeable So there can be more than one side to how someone is regarded So why attack his opponent, who served in the Commandos for 7 years, as only serving for "5 minutes"? Most veterans who struggle serve only a small number of years.
|
|
|
Post by stb12 on Mar 27, 2024 22:59:47 GMT
I think there’s a wide feeling that Mercer does genuinely and passionately care about veterans issues, even if he comes across to many as not that personally likeable So there can be more than one side to how someone is regarded So why attack his opponent, who served in the Commandos for 7 years, as only serving for "5 minutes"? Most veterans who struggle serve only a small number of years. Partisan politics and social media can be a really toxic combination, I’d be the last person to defend that and Mercer seems particularly susceptible But I think there’s enough evidence that his feelings are genuine, for starters a veterans role seems to be the only government role he has any interest in
|
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,246
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 27, 2024 23:19:00 GMT
So why attack his opponent, who served in the Commandos for 7 years, as only serving for "5 minutes"? Most veterans who struggle serve only a small number of years. Partisan politics and social media can be a really toxic combination, I’d be the last person to defend that and Mercer seems particularly susceptible But I think there’s enough evidence that his feelings are genuine, for starters a veterans role seems to be the only government role he has any interest in Particularly toxic for him. He is a government minister, for Heaven's sake, and he spouts profanities, revels in ad hominem attacks, shares successes, but attacks veterans who point out his failures. Really sad.
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Mar 27, 2024 23:37:36 GMT
Question. If Johnny Mercer gets jailed for contempt will he have the whip withdrawn? Mercer is widely regarded as a good egg. I do not share this view. Reporting of his allegation that British forces committed war crimes and his principled refusal to name his sources habitually fails to offer the possible reason that he is a lying little shit who has invented it all. I think this possibility should be entertained, it being no less plausible than the possibility that no elderly white widow ever told Enoch Powell that she had dog shit shoved through her letter box by black children. Further question. If somebody told you that UK forces had shot prisoners, would you make it your mission in life to expose the crime, or would decide that the issue of potholes in your constituency was more where you wanted to make your mark? Honest to God, it's pretty much an open secret among people who served in Afghanistan that the SAS were up to this stuff. I've never heard anything alleged against other units.
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Mar 28, 2024 15:03:50 GMT
I just find it puzzling that in this case he actually wants to bring attention to war crimes committed by British soldiers, whereas the rest of his tenure has been about seeking to indemnify them from consequences.
|
|
|
Post by stb12 on Mar 28, 2024 19:10:40 GMT
I just find it puzzling that in this case he actually wants to bring attention to war crimes committed by British soldiers, whereas the rest of his tenure has been about seeking to indemnify them from consequences. Is that not more specifically in relation to Northern Ireland?
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Mar 28, 2024 22:06:26 GMT
I just find it puzzling that in this case he actually wants to bring attention to war crimes committed by British soldiers, whereas the rest of his tenure has been about seeking to indemnify them from consequences. Is that not more specifically in relation to Northern Ireland? Interesting distinction. Are you suggesting that he is OK with the extrajudicial killing of Catholics, but not so much of Muslims?
|
|