nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,075
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Mar 12, 2024 20:53:16 GMT
One solution would be to scrap the recall system completely and recognise that MPs already have an individual mandate. Recall is part of our constitution now, you couldn't get rid very easily. It's on the statute book but not part of the constitution-can easily be abolished!
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 12, 2024 21:01:11 GMT
Recall is part of our constitution now, you couldn't get rid very easily. It's on the statute book but not part of the constitution-can easily be abolished! In the UK there is no clear distinction between constitutional Acts of Parliament and ordinary ones. There isn't a 'basic law'. So there will never be a clear answer to this debate.
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Post by johnloony on Mar 12, 2024 21:06:12 GMT
Recall is part of our constitution now, you couldn't get rid very easily. It's on the statute book but not part of the constitution-can easily be abolished! Of course it’s part of the constitution. The fact that it’s a statute law makes it part of the constitution. The fact that it happens sometimes makes it part of the constitution. The fact that it’s part of the constitution also means that it is very easy for Parliament to change the law to stop it being part of the constitution.
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peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,257
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Post by peterl on Mar 12, 2024 21:37:10 GMT
It's on the statute book but not part of the constitution-can easily be abolished! Of course it’s part of the constitution. The fact that it’s a statute law makes it part of the constitution. The fact that it happens sometimes makes it part of the constitution. The fact that it’s part of the constitution also means that it is very easy for Parliament to change the law to stop it being part of the constitution. An oversimplification. Common law can be part of the constitution. Convention can be part of the constitution. True that Parliament could repeal recall easily, at least from a legal as opposed to political perspective. But there is a distinction between statutes that have constitutional significance and those that do not. An Act of Parliament with constitutional significance can only be expressly repealed, and is not repealed if a statute that simply contradicts it is passed (Thoburn v Sunderland City Council).
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Mar 12, 2024 21:41:31 GMT
It's on the statute book but not part of the constitution-can easily be abolished! In the UK there is no clear distinction between constitutional Acts of Parliament and ordinary ones. There isn't a 'basic law'. So there will never be a clear answer to this debate. Fair. Maybe we can agree on "part of the political culture"?
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Mar 12, 2024 21:51:47 GMT
Recall is part of our constitution now, you couldn't get rid very easily. It's on the statute book but not part of the constitution-can easily be abolished! Fair point. But whilst some are (PR/STV for certain elections) some are not!
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 12, 2024 21:58:37 GMT
One solution would be to open the door to recall only if an MP joins a different party, not if they become an independent. In which case they would simply call themselves Independent, while voting with their new party. And come to an off the record agreement re the next GE.
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,041
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Post by ilerda on Mar 12, 2024 22:02:49 GMT
And if parties were to merge or rename themselves would that require all their MPs to be suddenly recalled? Similarly what if a party ceased to exist or was removed from the register? This is the problem with linking the right of an elected MP to sit in Parliament to something that is fundamentally extraparliamentary (ie the parties themselves).
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Post by mattbewilson on Mar 12, 2024 22:27:49 GMT
And if parties were to merge or rename themselves would that require all their MPs to be suddenly recalled? Similarly what if a party ceased to exist or was removed from the register? This is the problem with linking the right of an elected MP to sit in Parliament to something that is fundamentally extraparliamentary (ie the parties themselves). the latter wouldn't be the case. No one suggested Lee resign his seat when he was suspended
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Mar 12, 2024 22:42:37 GMT
And if parties were to merge or rename themselves would that require all their MPs to be suddenly recalled? Similarly what if a party ceased to exist or was removed from the register? This is the problem with linking the right of an elected MP to sit in Parliament to something that is fundamentally extraparliamentary (ie the parties themselves). I said in my original post: if defection is due to merger or demerger, it wouldn't trigger Recall.
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Mar 13, 2024 11:19:10 GMT
Recall is part of our constitution now, you couldn't get rid very easily. I actually think it’s one of the better recent reforms. MPs should be held to a standard and voters should have an option to get rid if they fall short. If the electorate bugger up I don't see why they should be given a second chance.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 13, 2024 12:47:01 GMT
the Guardian did a vox pop there a few months ago, too, and only a minority were pro-Anderson. Vox pops are a waste of time & always have been. They are always in town centres, just for starters. Radio Stoke used to do Crewe & Nantwich local election vox-pops by stepping out of their front door and walking ... ooh, 10 yards to stop random passers-by. Suited us, most of the people walking that way were from the town's best Lib Dem ward.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 13, 2024 13:00:55 GMT
Labour whip appears to have been restored to Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough). He lost it on 30 October over a questionable line in a speech at a rally on the Gaza crisis.
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 13, 2024 13:19:41 GMT
Labour whip appears to have been restored to Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough). He lost it on 30 October over a questionable line in a speech at a rally on the Gaza crisis. Good. "We will not rest until we have justice. Until all people, Israelis and Palestinians between the river and the sea can live in peaceful liberty," Daft.
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Post by batman on Mar 13, 2024 13:44:31 GMT
My own view was that he should, and could easily, have avoided using that phrase, but that he specifically used it in a way which cannot reasonably be described as antisemitic, and that suspension of the whip was too harsh; a conversation in which he was told that that particular phrase should be generally avoided would have been sufficient. I'm pleased that he has it back now.
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Post by johnloony on Mar 13, 2024 13:50:09 GMT
the Guardian did a vox pop there a few months ago, too, and only a minority were pro-Anderson. Vox pops are a waste of time & always have been. They are always in town centres, just for starters. Alcuin (798 AD) said “Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit” which means “And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness.” (emfsis added)
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 13, 2024 13:56:15 GMT
Labour whip appears to have been restored to Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough). He lost it on 30 October over a questionable line in a speech at a rally on the Gaza crisis. Guido whipping themselves up into a frenzy about this, whilst remaining silent on Hester.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Mar 13, 2024 14:08:35 GMT
Labour whip appears to have been restored to Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough). He lost it on 30 October over a questionable line in a speech at a rally on the Gaza crisis. Guido whipping themselves up into a frenzy about this, whilst remaining silent on Hester. Guido has always been one of the "free speech matters except when it doesn't" crowd.
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ColinJ
Labour
Living in the Past
Posts: 1,981
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Post by ColinJ on Mar 13, 2024 14:14:18 GMT
Labour whip appears to have been restored to Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough). He lost it on 30 October over a questionable line in a speech at a rally on the Gaza crisis. Guido whipping themselves up into a frenzy about this, whilst remaining silent on Hester. After what she's been through, and despite being one of my least favourite Labour politicians, I reckon a return of the whip should be offered to Diane Abbott. She's "done her time", so to speak, and I'm sure the sign of solidarity it would show would be welcomed by many.
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Post by mattbewilson on Mar 13, 2024 15:30:35 GMT
I don't personally think that what she has been through should be a determining factor. But I do agree. Her comments were terrible & antisemitic. But she has shown at least some measure of contrition, and for the year she has been suspended she has not done anything further untoward (in contrast with the conduct of Jeremy Corbyn who frankly is very fortunate even to continue to hold a party membership card). I think she should be given the whip back now. Whether she really should be standing in the general election is perhaps another matter, but if her CLP wills it, and she wants to stand, I'd be inclined to allow it - conditional on no further infringements. its not fortunate, we have an independent disciplinary process. I'm sure if Jeremy had done something that required intervention it would have happened.
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