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Post by manchesterman on Jan 12, 2021 15:06:15 GMT
Greater Manchester - there are some real problems here and it needs a lot more work but everything is legal. It's actually possible to divide Manchester into 5 seats without ward splits (to my amazement) but unfortunately it gave rise to problems elsewhere that I was unable to solve.
Wigan - 75607 Makerfield - 75069 Leigh - 76747 Westhoughton - 73149 Bolton - 76589 Farnworth - 75629 Salford - 71012
Eccles and Davyhulme - 73843 Stretford and Sale - 73385 Altrincham and Urmston - 74185 Manchester Wythenshawe - 74587 Manchester Withington - 72328 Manchester Moss Side - 70692 Manchester Gorton - 74364 Manchester Blackley - 74209 Radcliffe - 70793 Bury - 75652 Middleton and Prestwich - 74419 Heywood and Royton - 72260 Rochdale - 72290 Oldham East - 72997 Oldham West and Droylesden - 75032 Ashton under Lyne and Stalybridge - 71134 Denton and Hyde - 72657 Stockport - 74769 Hazel Grove - 72941 Cheadle - 73775
Nice gerrymander in Altrincham and Sale. I'm sure the residents of Hale Barns are going to love being in Manchester Wythensawe. Shame cos its pretty good outside the Trafford borough area. Could you not get Sale Moor into Wythenshawe instead? Yeah I thought that...but the most egregious change here is the Eccles & Davyhulme seat.... you've only gone and crossed the Manchester Ship Canal! #pitchforkbait
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 11, 2021 23:42:11 GMT
Apparently it was 'fake news'. Official websites info changed by a disgruntled employee!
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 11, 2021 23:34:25 GMT
lots of "rumours" flying around on non-MSM news sites that Trump will resign at 7.30pm EST (ie in about an hour), which is why there are lots of helicopters circling Pence's house.
Probably BS, but worth seeing what happens in the next hour or so...
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 11, 2021 20:52:50 GMT
So by the time the Senate actually get around to having a trial Trump will have been a private citizen for over 3 months - can the Senate hold a trial of a private citizen?. Yes they can, and if they convict it would strip him of most of the perks that he will otherwise get as a former President. Most notably he would lose his lifetime secret service protection but he would also lose his pension and a rather substantial travel budget. ..and , possibly more importantly, (as I understand it), following impeachment he would be barred from running for public office again.. 2024
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 11, 2021 20:36:43 GMT
A possibly unpopular view with some on here: there needs to be a certain amount of "revenge" after all that has happened, even if it is often more symbolic than real? To an extent. The revenge should be against Trump and his cronies and enablers. Seeing Trump jailed, and the likes of Hawley hounded, destroyed and expelled, along with others like him, and all the Congress invaders jailed for years, would be of great satisfaction to the Dem base...and have the advantage of being good for "LAW & ORDER!" and laying down legal red lines for the future. No pardons for any of them; just firm justice. Taking revenge on Trump voters generally, or even on "white men" as a group (even though that was the one group that swung solidly to Biden in the election!) is unwise and unproductive and just digs the trenches deeper and doesn't even punish people who seriously deserve it. I think most of us on all sides would go along with that
Can we get mboy on the SCOTUS please?
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 10, 2021 1:34:37 GMT
maybe they should just kick both of them out and award the seat to the Buffalo Horns QAnon man....his presence in the House would hopefully be a lightbulb moment for some of the GOP reps!!
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 10, 2021 1:29:32 GMT
Apparently voting records show that that guy who stole the lectern has never voted in a public election. are you sure his vote wasnt stolen?
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 20:20:34 GMT
I suppose this was quite predictable really...
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 20:02:37 GMT
I was going to give the Boss kudos for great foresight, but deep down I think we all feared it may end like it did...
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 15:42:16 GMT
Trump has stated he will not attend the Biden inauguration. Oh the grand old dork called Trump He had ten thousand men He marched them up to Capitol Hill Then he ran away from them
And when they were up he was up And when they were down he was down And when they were only half way up He made plans to leave town
Trad, arrange Finso.
I have a re-draft for your consideration, Finso?
Oh the man child from New York He had ten thousand men He marched them up to Capitol Hill Then he ran away from them
And when they were up he was up And when they were down he was down And when they were only half way up They took his twitter down
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 14:46:11 GMT
..but arent you going somewhat down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole yourself here, mate? There is no such thing as absolute freedom, I hope everyone agrees.
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 12:32:19 GMT
What mechanisms could be used to do this though? Surely, whilst Trump is still C-in-C he could theoretically say to an aide "bring me the nuclear codes" and there is nothing , legally, that Pence or anyone could do to stop him? They could simply ignore him. In any event does not the the use of nuclear weapons require a certain level of insecurity? I have seen films refer to Defcon 1, Defcon 2, etc. To cover the level of threat. Nuclear weapons could only be launched at something like Defcon 5. Ok that is from films but there must be security built into such weapons systems. I remain convinced that the military high command are talking to Pence and the Congressional leadership including Pelosi and McConnell and not to Trump. Anyone can see that Trump is as mad as a bag of frogs at the moment issuing contradictory statements. He issued the ‘hostage statement’ yesterday followed by a more inflammatory Tweet which finally got him banned from Twitter for good. But isnt that the capt Bligh/Fletcher Christian situation? Whilst Christian et al had "right" on their side, technically it was Mutiny, as Bligh was in charge and issuing direct orders which they were disobeying. This would surely be Mutiny - on a technical level - for disobeying/ignoring the direct orders of the C-in-C.
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 12:27:48 GMT
I could conceive of enough GOP Senators being persuaded (after all its for a few days, not months, and he would of course be replaced by Pence, a proper Republican); however I think the problem would be getting enough GOP Reps to join in. For that reason, I dont see impeachment working; only 25th amendment could do it - otherwise we will just have to sit tight with fingers crossed till 20th January Impeachment requires only a simple majority in the House, whereas the 25th requires a 2/3 majority. You have this the wrong way around. Yeah I appreciate that (and I did type it at 3am)!
However I was trying to put myself in the role of a "normal" GOP House member. Given that the Dems have said "we will impeach if you dont invoke 25th Amdt"; I have a decision to make. Do I do nothing and take the risk that enough GOP Senators vote against impeachment [and remember if he is impeached he wouldnt be able to run for office again, which would infuriate the millions of trumpers who would blame the GOP for not preventing this and presumably refuse to vote GOP or vote for an alternate candidate in forthcoming elections]; OR do I try to use this argument to persuade colleagues that it is in the best interests of the party to vote for 25th Amdt to effectively stand Trump down for what would basically be a week when it's all is said & done, replace him with a popular GOP figure (Pence) and explain to the Trump base that this was done to prevent impeachment that would prevent Trump from standing in 2024. I know it requires more GOP House members to back it (and wont happen) but the rationale is sound IMO.
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 12:09:28 GMT
I could conceive of enough GOP Senators being persuaded (after all its for a few days, not months, and he would of course be replaced by Pence, a proper Republican); however I think the problem would be getting enough GOP Reps to join in. For that reason, I dont see impeachment working; only 25th amendment could do it - otherwise we will just have to sit tight with fingers crossed till 20th January The 25th Amendment route isn't happening for the simple reason that Pence does not want to use that option. He knows that it would destroy any chances he had of winning the GOP nomination in 2024. Had Pence been planning to invoke the 25th then DeVos and Chao wouldn't have resigned. However Pence also knows that if Trump were able to do something really silly in the next 11 days that would be very bad for him. This is partly why I am pretty confident that Pence along with Chris Miller (Acting Secretary of Defense) and the military top brass have effectively removed Trump as the Commander in Chief. What mechanisms could be used to do this though? Surely, whilst Trump is still C-in-C he could theoretically say to an aide "bring me the nuclear codes" and there is nothing , legally, that Pence or anyone could do to stop him?
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 2:38:21 GMT
What do we think? This will almost certainly be an academic exercise, but which senators would be needed to impeach Trump? Without leadership support the only plausible Republican votes would appear to be Collins, Murkowski, Romney and Sasse. At a push maybe Toomey or (even longer shot) Grassley? I could conceive of enough GOP Senators being persuaded (after all its for a few days, not months, and he would of course be replaced by Pence, a proper Republican); however I think the problem would be getting enough GOP Reps to join in. For that reason, I dont see impeachment working; only 25th amendment could do it - otherwise we will just have to sit tight with fingers crossed till 20th January
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 0:57:16 GMT
I think Richard just beat me to the punch.
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 23:36:20 GMT
Why not post a thread about your suggestions for the political reorganisation of North America in the Alternate Political History page in the Psephology sub-forum?
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 17:42:55 GMT
Trump has stated he will not attend the Biden inauguration. Oh the grand old dork called Trump He had ten thousand men He marched them up to Capitol Hill Then he ran away from them
And when they were up he was up And when they were down he was down And when they were only half way up He made plans to leave town
Trad, arrange Finso.
Fantastic! Do you mind if I share?
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 17:40:48 GMT
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Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 15:50:48 GMT
Oh dear. Seems likely at least some GOP politicians *will* be doing time... In fairness some of them were simply at the protest outside of the Capitol. My opinion on what should have happened to those who made it into the Capitol is surely well known by now but it is important we that we remember that many people attending the protest did not break any laws or do anything that warrants ruining their lives, careers, etc.Indeed, including my brother who left immediately after the speeches ended, as I commented on a few pages back
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