obsie
Non-Aligned
Posts: 866 
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Post by obsie on Apr 17, 2020 21:03:53 GMT
Perfectly possible to draw a constituency starting with Enniskillen and its surrounds and then move northward along the eastern shore of Lower Lough Erne (Ballycassidy, Killadeas, Kesh,...) with another constituency covering the western shore plus whatever is spare from the first seat towards Belleek, and a third covering the south-eastern end of the county where the upper lough has bridges crossing it.
But that wasn't what was done and it doesn't take a genius to work out why.
Looking at the numbers (incomplete due to uncontested elections) it looks anyway that Tyrone should have got 6 constituencies and Fermanagh two. The Tyrone constituencies were all 15-17k in the 1930s while Fermanagh's were 11 or 12k. The problem was that they just split the Stormont constituencies which existed in 1921 according to their number of members, Belfast in 1929 deserved at least 1 more. A fair few of the Belfast ones were pretty weird. Most of Woodvale was in Belfast Shankill, most of the Shankill was in Belfast Woodvale. A fair proportion of the Oldpark was in Clifton. St Anne's cathedral, which gave the ward its name, wasn't in St Anne's etc. It's also notable that the West Belfast Westminster seat was much much larger than the other three Belfast seats. |
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
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Post by piperdave on Jun 12, 2020 21:57:48 GMT
Does anyone have, or can direct me to, constituency maps of the West Riding of Yorkshire for the 1910 and 1918 general elections? I've looked at the links at the start of this thread and they're not really giving me what I'm after.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 12, 2020 22:05:18 GMT
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 12, 2020 22:12:47 GMT
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,044
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Post by Sibboleth on Jun 13, 2020 0:13:00 GMT
Does anyone have, or can direct me to, constituency maps of the West Riding of Yorkshire for the 1910 and 1918 general elections? I've looked at the links at the start of this thread and they're not really giving me what I'm after. What sort of scale are you thinking of? |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jun 13, 2020 7:19:59 GMT
J.G.Harston has a photo on his website of the Sheffield boundaries on a 1930s map which will at least give the basic idea. (I think the dotted lines are constituency boundaries which don't follow ward boundaries of the time, due to expansion of the city after 1918.) The small constituency in the middle is Central, and going clockwise around the city from the south-west Ecclesall, Hallam, Hillsborough, Brightside, Attercliffe, Park. The former Handsworth UD was in Rother Valley, Norton and Dore were in NE Derbyshire, and the northern edge of the city was in Penistone.
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Post by islington on Jun 13, 2020 10:37:09 GMT
There's also the UKGA site whose Yorkshire page is here -
The four maps cover the whole of Yorkshire showing the 1885 boundaries, which were still in effect for the two GEs in 1910. Boroughs are shown in dark pink and note that divisions within them are not shown, so for Bradford (3 divisions), Hull (3), Leeds (5) and Sheffield (5) you'll need to refer to the relevant maps on VoB. The other boroughs in Yorkshire weren't divided and returned one MP each apart from Halifax and York, which each returned two. In the north of the county the Thornaby area is shown in dark pink because it was part of the single-member borough of Stockton, which was mainly in Co Durham. The county divisions were all single-member.
Another point to note is that until 1918 there were different voting qualifications for counties and boroughs. This meant it was possible for someone to hold property within a borough that qualified for a county vote but not for the borough (for instance, because borough qualification required residence but county qualification did not). Where a holding qualified for both the borough and the county, the borough qualification took priority; but to cater for anyone with a holding that qualified only for a county vote, each borough had to be assigned as belonging to a county division. (I think I have all this right but I'm open to correction or further information.)
This is why the name of a county division often overlaps a borough. It leads to oddities: e.g. the Handsworth area appears to be detached from the rest of the Hallamshire seat, but this is because the borough of Sheffield was part of Hallamshire; and best of all, the Shipley seat falls into two well-separated halves until you realize that it included Bradford.
Note also that although the 1885 boundaries in Yorkshire were (I think I'm right in saying) adopted unchanged from the Boundary Commission proposals, a handful of names were changed, e.g. Holmfirth and Spen Valley instead of Penistone and Birstal - there may be one or two others. So rely on the UKGA maps rather than the 1885 Commission maps in the matter of names.
Particular thanks to David for the Leeds map showing the 1917 proposals. I hadn't seen this before. It's interesting that the external boundary of Leeds appears to be unchanged from 1885 (and indeed from 1832) except for an extension in the north east shown as the ward of Roundhay, Seacroft, Shadwell and Cross Gates (a name Dok B or the Scottish Boundary Commission would be proud of). Apart from that addition, at first glance all the other wards (shown as faint red lines on the 1917 map) appear to be unchanged from 1885.
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
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Post by piperdave on Jun 13, 2020 19:58:44 GMT
Thanks for the replies everyone. I was particularly looking for boundaries in what are now Kirklees and Barnsley, which I found eventually on VoB.
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Post by islington on Jun 14, 2020 11:17:25 GMT
J.G.Harston has a photo on his website of the Sheffield boundaries on a 1930s map which will at least give the basic idea. (I think the dotted lines are constituency boundaries which don't follow ward boundaries of the time, due to expansion of the city after 1918.) The small constituency in the middle is Central, and going clockwise around the city from the south-west Ecclesall, Hallam, Hillsborough, Brightside, Attercliffe, Park. The former Handsworth UD was in Rother Valley, Norton and Dore were in NE Derbyshire, and the northern edge of the city was in Penistone. I'd be interested in seeing the Sheffield map and I went on J.G.Harston's site in quest of it, but I wasn't sure where to find it.
Any chance of a link?
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jun 14, 2020 12:17:30 GMT
J.G.Harston has a photo on his website of the Sheffield boundaries on a 1930s map which will at least give the basic idea. (I think the dotted lines are constituency boundaries which don't follow ward boundaries of the time, due to expansion of the city after 1918.) The small constituency in the middle is Central, and going clockwise around the city from the south-west Ecclesall, Hallam, Hillsborough, Brightside, Attercliffe, Park. The former Handsworth UD was in Rother Valley, Norton and Dore were in NE Derbyshire, and the northern edge of the city was in Penistone. I'd be interested in seeing the Sheffield map and I went on J.G.Harston's site in quest of it, but I wasn't sure where to find it.
Any chance of a link?
Sorry for forgetting the link: the map is at mdfs.net/maps/Sheffield/Wards/1934/city1934.gif |
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Post by islington on Jun 14, 2020 16:56:05 GMT
Thanks muchly to YL for the link and JGH for providing the image in the first place.
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Post by hullenedge on Oct 18, 2021 14:19:58 GMT
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Oct 18, 2021 18:21:52 GMT
I'd be very interested in tracking down KML / KMZ files of the boundaries used for the 1974 - 1979 general elections.
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Post by islington on Jan 28, 2022 9:48:42 GMT
Looking at the numbers (incomplete due to uncontested elections) it looks anyway that Tyrone should have got 6 constituencies and Fermanagh two. The Tyrone constituencies were all 15-17k in the 1930s while Fermanagh's were 11 or 12k. The problem was that they just split the Stormont constituencies which existed in 1921 according to their number of members, Belfast in 1929 deserved at least 1 more. A fair few of the Belfast ones were pretty weird. Most of Woodvale was in Belfast Shankill, most of the Shankill was in Belfast Woodvale. A fair proportion of the Oldpark was in Clifton. St Anne's cathedral, which gave the ward its name, wasn't in St Anne's etc. It's also notable that the West Belfast Westminster seat was much much larger than the other three Belfast seats. That was because when, in 1922, NI's representation was cut from 29 territorial seats (+ Queen's University) to 12 (+ Queen's), it was done by combining existing seats rather than by drawing completely new boundaries. In the case of Belfast, a reduction from nine seats to four was effected by combining Woodvale, Falls and St Anne's to form Belfast West and then pairing off the other six seats to form Belfast North, East and South. So Belfast West was about 50% larger than the other Belfast seats.
These boundaries lasted until 1950.
Here are the nine seats.
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obsie
Non-Aligned
Posts: 866
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Post by obsie on Jan 28, 2022 10:36:47 GMT
It's also notable that the West Belfast Westminster seat was much much larger than the other three Belfast seats. That was because when, in 1922, NI's representation was cut from 29 territorial seats (+ Queen's University) to 12 (+ Queen's), it was done by combining existing seats rather than by drawing completely new boundaries. In the case of Belfast, a reduction from nine seats to four was effected by combining Woodvale, Falls and St Anne's to form Belfast West and then pairing off the other six seats to form Belfast North, East and South. So Belfast West was about 50% larger than the other Belfast seats.
These boundaries lasted until 1950.
Here are the nine seats.
What I was getting at, obliquely, was that making West the biggest seat helped to reduce the chances of a non-Unionist getting elected on the basis of the Falls, Smithfield, and central parts of St. Anne's wards. |
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Post by islington on Sept 8, 2022 16:43:37 GMT
This site looks brilliant.
Does anyone know whose baby it is? (I thought it might be someone here.)
www.parlconst.org/ |
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Post by parlconst on Sept 11, 2022 6:59:58 GMT
This site looks brilliant.
Does anyone know whose baby it is? (I thought it might be someone here.)
www.parlconst.org/Glad you like it. I only occasionally look at the posts on this forum. It's still an ongoing project, due to complete next year, by when the next set of boundaries should be confirmed and I will need to start again. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Sept 11, 2022 8:24:52 GMT
This site looks brilliant.
Does anyone know whose baby it is? (I thought it might be someone here.)
www.parlconst.org/Glad you like it. I only occasionally look at the posts on this forum. It's still an ongoing project, due to complete next year, by when the next set of boundaries should be confirmed and I will need to start again. Welcome to the board. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 9:21:21 GMT
This site looks brilliant.
Does anyone know whose baby it is? (I thought it might be someone here.)
www.parlconst.org/Glad you like it. I only occasionally look at the posts on this forum. It's still an ongoing project, due to complete next year, by when the next set of boundaries should be confirmed and I will need to start again. I really like your site, welcome to the forum. |
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Post by islington on Sept 11, 2022 12:08:09 GMT
This site looks brilliant.
Does anyone know whose baby it is? (I thought it might be someone here.)
www.parlconst.org/Glad you like it. I only occasionally look at the posts on this forum. It's still an ongoing project, due to complete next year, by when the next set of boundaries should be confirmed and I will need to start again. I've messaged you. |
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