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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 26, 2019 15:54:19 GMT
Not sure if this is in the right place - but does regard the historic Manchester Wythenshawe seat! This old 2001 election website 2001election.megasorcery.com/pcon655.htm (very interesting constituency and personality profiles though, many of which still apply today! They need a 2017 version) says that Wythenshawe was set to be 'broken up' in 1993 and after an 'inquiry' kept it together and we have the resultant pairing with Sale East. Any idea how it would have been broken up? It seems impossible to find any of the 1997 review information online, I was wondering if anyone may have known about the initial proposals and what interesting controversial proposals there may have been? Manchester Withington and Wythenshawe North? Tatton and Wythenshawe South???!!! This would have been in the Fourth Periodical Report of the Boundary Commission for England (aka the 1995 review). I have the reports at home, if you can wait until the evening. |
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Post by Robert Waller on Apr 26, 2019 16:22:45 GMT
Not sure if this is in the right place - but does regard the historic Manchester Wythenshawe seat! This old 2001 election website 2001election.megasorcery.com/pcon655.htm ( very interesting constituency and personality profiles though, many of which still apply today! They need a 2017 version) says that Wythenshawe was set to be 'broken up' in 1993 and after an 'inquiry' kept it together and we have the resultant pairing with Sale East. Any idea how it would have been broken up? It seems impossible to find any of the 1997 review information online, I was wondering if anyone may have known about the initial proposals and what interesting controversial proposals there may have been? Manchester Withington and Wythenshawe North? Tatton and Wythenshawe South???!!! I thought I'd look this up to see how they compared with The Almanac of British Politics. Well ... ! |
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Post by hullenedge on Apr 26, 2019 16:35:04 GMT
Not sure if this is in the right place - but does regard the historic Manchester Wythenshawe seat! This old 2001 election website 2001election.megasorcery.com/pcon655.htm (very interesting constituency and personality profiles though, many of which still apply today! They need a 2017 version) says that Wythenshawe was set to be 'broken up' in 1993 and after an 'inquiry' kept it together and we have the resultant pairing with Sale East. Any idea how it would have been broken up? It seems impossible to find any of the 1997 review information online, I was wondering if anyone may have known about the initial proposals and what interesting controversial proposals there may have been? Manchester Withington and Wythenshawe North? Tatton and Wythenshawe South???!!! From page 36 onwards:- archive.org/details/op1279204-1001/page/n35 |
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Apr 26, 2019 17:18:08 GMT
Not sure if this is in the right place - but does regard the historic Manchester Wythenshawe seat! This old 2001 election website 2001election.megasorcery.com/pcon655.htm (very interesting constituency and personality profiles though, many of which still apply today! They need a 2017 version) says that Wythenshawe was set to be 'broken up' in 1993 and after an 'inquiry' kept it together and we have the resultant pairing with Sale East. Any idea how it would have been broken up? It seems impossible to find any of the 1997 review information online, I was wondering if anyone may have known about the initial proposals and what interesting controversial proposals there may have been? Manchester Withington and Wythenshawe North? Tatton and Wythenshawe South???!!! From page 36 onwards:- archive.org/details/op1279204-1001/page/n35Amazing, thank you very much. Some of the proposals actually seem sensible, others not so much (Heywood East and Middleton, yet no Heywood West? It disappeared into Bury North). Clearly Baguley and 'Woodhouse Park' (or Airport ward as I'd like to call it) going into Altrincham didn't go down so well. It would have also guaranteed a Labour gain in 'Altrincham' given A&SW only had a Con majority of 1500 in '97. Then again they kept Sale together (but didn't call it Sale and Urmston). I didn't think they'd keep the Manchester Wythenshawe name but they did, and included Didsbury in there. This may have prevented a Lib Dem gain in Withington in '05-'15, and I don't think the Labour strongholds in the rest of 'Wythenshawe' could have been overturned. On the other hand Saddleworth and Stalybridge, and Denton and Hyde seem quite reasonable. Manchester Gorton would have disappeared (I assume Kaufman would have moved to Central) and not so keen on the 'Stretford' taking in so much of inner-city Manchester, surprised that incarnation lasted as long as it did. |
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Post by greenhert on Jun 18, 2019 16:36:50 GMT
From 1950 to 1983, Suffolk only had 5 constituencies (it now has 7 and will be entitled to 8 if a fair boundary review is conducted).
This is how big they actually were:
(Bury St Edmunds in orange, Eye in light blue, Ipswich in dark blue, Lowestoft in green, Sudbury & Woodbridge in pink)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 19:31:14 GMT
From 1950 to 1983, Suffolk only had 5 constituencies (it now has 7 and will be entitled to 8 if a fair boundary review is conducted).
This is how big they actually were:
(Bury St Edmunds in orange, Eye in light blue, Ipswich in dark blue, Lowestoft in green, Sudbury & Woodbridge in pink)
"Eye" is a great constituency name, needs to be resurrected  |
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jun 18, 2019 19:40:14 GMT
From 1950 to 1983, Suffolk only had 5 constituencies (it now has 7 and will be entitled to 8 if a fair boundary review is conducted).
This is how big they actually were:
(Bury St Edmunds in orange, Eye in light blue, Ipswich in dark blue, Lowestoft in green, Sudbury & Woodbridge in pink)
"Eye" is a great constituency name, needs to be resurrected Aye aye. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 20:05:54 GMT
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Post by owainsutton on Jun 18, 2019 20:46:12 GMT
I used to work in Eye.
At the disappointingly-named Hartismere High School.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Jun 19, 2019 10:26:06 GMT
Maybe one day we could have a “Hope” constituency?
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Post by greenchristian on Jun 19, 2019 12:20:51 GMT
Maybe one day we could have a “Hope” constituency? You think the current boundaries are hopeless?  |
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Adrian
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Post by Adrian on Jun 30, 2019 21:18:51 GMT
I used to work in Eye. At the disappointingly-named Hartismere High School. Named after the hundred. It'd be a good name for a district or constituency if not for the confusion with Hertsmere. |
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obsie
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Post by obsie on Apr 17, 2020 4:06:39 GMT
Northern Ireland Stormont constituencies (1929-69)   The images come from the Belfast News-Letter, the frequent references to "Derry" indicating that Stroke City was not the shibboleth at the time that it has since become. In terms of gerrymandering, South Fermanagh, Mid Tyrone, and Mid Derry are all obvious efforts to pack as many Catholics as possible into single constituencies, keeping Lisnaskea and North Tyrone marginally Unionist and South Derry more safely Unionist than it might otherwise have been. Armagh illustrates a combination of packing and cracking, with South Armagh wandering up to Middletown, and the west of the county being split three ways. Zoomable version of the top map here.
I would particularly like to applaud the creators of the Enniskillen constituency, which didn't contain any of Enniskillen's eastern suburbs or surrounding rural area (Ballinamallard, Lisbellaw, et al were needed to top up the Unionist majority in Lisnaskea), but did manage to join together the northern and mid-western parts of the county despite those parts being separated by a couple of miles of Lower Lough Erne. Mersey Banks and Wallasey and Kirkdale were only in the ha'penny place in comparison.
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 17, 2020 6:26:15 GMT
Northern Ireland Stormont constituencies (1929-69) The images come from the Belfast News-Letter, the frequent references to "Derry" indicating that Stroke City was not the shibboleth at the time that it has since become. In terms of gerrymandering, South Fermanagh, Mid Tyrone, and Mid Derry are all obvious efforts to pack as many Catholics as possible into single constituencies, keeping Lisnaskea and North Tyrone marginally Unionist and South Derry more safely Unionist than it might otherwise have been. Armagh illustrates a combination of packing and cracking, with South Armagh wandering up to Middletown, and the west of the county being split three ways. Zoomable version of the top map here.
I would particularly like to applaud the creators of the Enniskillen constituency, which didn't contain any of Enniskillen's eastern suburbs or surrounding rural area (Ballinamallard, Lisbellaw, et al were needed to top up the Unionist majority in Lisnaskea), but did manage to join together the northern and mid-western parts of the county despite those parts being separated by a couple of miles of Lower Lough Erne. Mersey Banks and Wallasey and Kirkdale were only in the ha'penny place in comparison.
I quite like the balance on the (London)derry issue, though- always Londonderry in the text, Derry on the maps (to save space, presumably?) |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Apr 17, 2020 7:46:52 GMT
I would particularly like to applaud the creators of the Enniskillen constituency, which didn't contain any of Enniskillen's eastern suburbs or surrounding rural area (Ballinamallard, Lisbellaw, et al were needed to top up the Unionist majority in Lisnaskea), but did manage to join together the northern and mid-western parts of the county despite those parts being separated by a couple of miles of Lower Lough Erne. Mersey Banks and Wallasey and Kirkdale were only in the ha'penny place in comparison.
To be perhaps a little too fair, any three-way split of County Fermanagh is likely to have a boundary coming uncomfortably close to Enniskillen. It's not a nice county to split into three (or many other numbers). The constituency names in County Armagh are truly awful there as well. Having both a Central and a Mid. Eugh. |
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 17, 2020 10:27:59 GMT
The "mid" in Mid Armagh appears to have been added onto the map, intriguingly.
(same with the other "mids" in fact, of which there are rather a few)
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Post by greenhert on Apr 17, 2020 12:13:00 GMT
Northern Ireland Stormont constituencies (1929-69) The images come from the Belfast News-Letter, the frequent references to "Derry" indicating that Stroke City was not the shibboleth at the time that it has since become. In terms of gerrymandering, South Fermanagh, Mid Tyrone, and Mid Derry are all obvious efforts to pack as many Catholics as possible into single constituencies, keeping Lisnaskea and North Tyrone marginally Unionist and South Derry more safely Unionist than it might otherwise have been. Armagh illustrates a combination of packing and cracking, with South Armagh wandering up to Middletown, and the west of the county being split three ways. Zoomable version of the top map here.
I would particularly like to applaud the creators of the Enniskillen constituency, which didn't contain any of Enniskillen's eastern suburbs or surrounding rural area (Ballinamallard, Lisbellaw, et al were needed to top up the Unionist majority in Lisnaskea), but did manage to join together the northern and mid-western parts of the county despite those parts being separated by a couple of miles of Lower Lough Erne. Mersey Banks and Wallasey and Kirkdale were only in the ha'penny place in comparison.
It was an anti-nationalist gerrymander, that is why it had those illogical boundaries. |
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obsie
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Post by obsie on Apr 17, 2020 15:48:44 GMT
I would particularly like to applaud the creators of the Enniskillen constituency, which didn't contain any of Enniskillen's eastern suburbs or surrounding rural area (Ballinamallard, Lisbellaw, et al were needed to top up the Unionist majority in Lisnaskea), but did manage to join together the northern and mid-western parts of the county despite those parts being separated by a couple of miles of Lower Lough Erne. Mersey Banks and Wallasey and Kirkdale were only in the ha'penny place in comparison.
To be perhaps a little too fair, any three-way split of County Fermanagh is likely to have a boundary coming uncomfortably close to Enniskillen. It's not a nice county to split into three (or many other numbers). Perfectly possible to draw a constituency starting with Enniskillen and its surrounds and then move northward along the eastern shore of Lower Lough Erne (Ballycassidy, Killadeas, Kesh,...) with another constituency covering the western shore plus whatever is spare from the first seat towards Belleek, and a third covering the south-eastern end of the county where the upper lough has bridges crossing it.
But that wasn't what was done and it doesn't take a genius to work out why.
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therealriga
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Post by therealriga on Apr 17, 2020 16:46:36 GMT
I quite like the balance on the (London)derry issue, though- always Londonderry in the text, Derry on the maps (to save space, presumably?) The constituencies themselves split one unionist, one nationalist. Allegedly, Unionists hadn't even wanted that, but couldn't find a satisfactory way to gerrymander 3 contiguous constituencies covering the city with a secure enough majority. The local UUP suggested a non-contiguous "Londonderry boroughs" or "Londonderry urban" constituency which would include the city plus Limavady and Coleraine, electing 2 members by FPTP, but the UUP leadership thought that would be too blatant and, with nationalist numbers low, it wasn't a priority. |
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therealriga
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Post by therealriga on Apr 17, 2020 16:50:43 GMT
To be perhaps a little too fair, any three-way split of County Fermanagh is likely to have a boundary coming uncomfortably close to Enniskillen. It's not a nice county to split into three (or many other numbers). Perfectly possible to draw a constituency starting with Enniskillen and its surrounds and then move northward along the eastern shore of Lower Lough Erne (Ballycassidy, Killadeas, Kesh,...) with another constituency covering the western shore plus whatever is spare from the first seat towards Belleek, and a third covering the south-eastern end of the county where the upper lough has bridges crossing it.
But that wasn't what was done and it doesn't take a genius to work out why.
Looking at the numbers (incomplete due to uncontested elections) it looks anyway that Tyrone should have got 6 constituencies and Fermanagh two. The Tyrone constituencies were all 15-17k in the 1930s while Fermanagh's were 11 or 12k. The problem was that they just split the Stormont constituencies which existed in 1921 according to their number of members, Belfast in 1929 deserved at least 1 more. A fair few of the Belfast ones were pretty weird. Most of Woodvale was in Belfast Shankill, most of the Shankill was in Belfast Woodvale. A fair proportion of the Oldpark was in Clifton. St Anne's cathedral, which gave the ward its name, wasn't in St Anne's etc. |
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