hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 29, 2017 19:01:28 GMT
Labour did have a plan to really help Blackpool - the megacasino. It got squashed due to fairly misplaced moral objections. (BTW I grew up in Scarborough so I do know about seaside resorts) It would have created a fair bit of employment for prostitutes and drug dealers, debt and addiction councillors, extra policing, extra work in the local hospitals, womans refugees. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 29, 2017 20:21:55 GMT
Labour did have a plan to really help Blackpool - the megacasino. It got squashed due to fairly misplaced moral objections. (BTW I grew up in Scarborough so I do know about seaside resorts) It would have created a fair bit of employment for prostitutes and drug dealers, debt and addiction councillors, extra policing, extra work in the local hospitals, womans refugees. I think you'll find Blackpool achieves that without any need for a megacasino. There's clearly a broader issue of "what do we do with seaside resorts which have outlived their past role" e.g. Blackpool, Morecambe, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Great Yarmouth, Skegness, Clacton etc etc |
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 29, 2017 20:37:50 GMT
It would have created a fair bit of employment for prostitutes and drug dealers, debt and addiction councillors, extra policing, extra work in the local hospitals, womans refugees. I think you'll find Blackpool achieves that without any need for a megacasino. There's clearly a broader issue of "what do we do with seaside resorts which have outlived their past role" e.g. Blackpool, Morecambe, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Great Yarmouth, Skegness, Clacton etc etc Yes I agree, but I think casinos will simply draw money out of the local economies rather than revitalise them. Surely the great minds off this country can come up with something better than roulette wheels and slot machines to regenerate these areas. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 29, 2017 21:09:45 GMT
I think you'll find Blackpool achieves that without any need for a megacasino. There's clearly a broader issue of "what do we do with seaside resorts which have outlived their past role" e.g. Blackpool, Morecambe, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Great Yarmouth, Skegness, Clacton etc etc Yes I agree, but I think casinos will simply draw money out of the local economies rather than revitalise them. Surely the great minds off this country can't come up with something better than roulette wheels and slot machines to regenerate these areas. These areas - plural - yes. This one area I think it may have worked as a focus for regeneration. And high end large casinos don't tend to be associated with the negatives because they are properly run and regulated. The aim was to get people coming to Blackpool again. Locals certainly wanted it. And I must add that I don't gamble at all. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 29, 2017 22:35:20 GMT
The experience of the USA suggests strongly that regeneration-via-casino does not work. I'm more positive about Blair era urban policy than many (in part because critics rarely ever suggested plausible alternatives) but that idea was a duff one.* Of course Blackpool's problem is the same as the other 'pool down the coast; structural economic change beyond its control robbed it of its function as a place. The fashionable emphasis on SEASIDE POVERTY is curious though. Not to downplay the social problems of old resorts, but the inner cities and old industrial towns remain the places with the most severe issues.
*Though, yes, I would also oppose on moral grounds, I admit.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 29, 2017 22:39:13 GMT
Incidentally the policy of quietly dumping benefits claimants in old resorts and in market towns is a bad one and should cease.
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 30, 2017 0:04:07 GMT
Yes I agree, but I think casinos will simply draw money out of the local economies rather than revitalise them. Surely the great minds off this country can't come up with something better than roulette wheels and slot machines to regenerate these areas. These areas - plural - yes. This one area I think it may have worked as a focus for regeneration. And high end large casinos don't tend to be associated with the negatives because they are properly run and regulated. The aim was to get people coming to Blackpool again. Locals certainly wanted it. And I must add that I don't gamble at all. When this policy came out under Tony Blair, my opinions off Labour sunk to its lowest ever ebb, it betrayed all the principals that I thought layed behind traditional Labour, for me the Labour party was founded on strong methodist principals, ensuring that the working mans pay packet didn't get spent on drink and gambling before the wife and kids were provided with the housekeeping. This to me was a clear betrayal, the talk about attracting high rollers was just as bad in my book. Its all living on immoral earnings as far as im concerned, it wouldn't have happened under Jim Callaghan. |
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Post by John Chanin on Mar 30, 2017 6:31:18 GMT
It would have created a fair bit of employment for prostitutes and drug dealers, debt and addiction councillors, extra policing, extra work in the local hospitals, womans refugees. I think you'll find Blackpool achieves that without any need for a megacasino. There's clearly a broader issue of "what do we do with seaside resorts which have outlived their past role" e.g. Blackpool, Morecambe, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Great Yarmouth, Skegness, Clacton etc etc The interesting thing is that not all the old seaside resorts have decayed into hopelessness. Enough of a skilled population base, and a council fixed on economic development has made a roaring success of Bournemouth and Brighton, and Eastbourne hasn't done badly either. Southend after a poor start has also geared up quite well. It's harder to think of success stories in the north though.
I'm not actually convinced that inner cities and old industrial towns do have more deprivation pro rata to population. They have certainly had more attention and investment. Inner cities for example have twice as much money for education, and generally much better educational attainment (who says money doesn't count). There is always some dynamic employment, even in Liverpool. Old industrial towns while declining and not happy about it generally lack the same deprivation levels. It's the old mining areas, like the seaside towns, that have the worst dereliction.
The point is that governments since the 1980s have done very little about this sort of inequality as well as other sorts of inequality because of the free market ideology, and the view that government intervention doesn't work. There is, as noted above, an exception for the poorer inner areas of the big cities. Perhaps these were simply more noticeable to the powers that be who live in the big cities, and were offended by the obvious poverty around them.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 30, 2017 10:22:06 GMT
The experience of the USA suggests strongly that regeneration-via-casino does not work. I'm more positive about Blair era urban policy than many (in part because critics rarely ever suggested plausible alternatives) but that idea was a duff one.* Of course Blackpool's problem is the same as the other 'pool down the coast; structural economic change beyond its control robbed it of its function as a place. The fashionable emphasis on SEASIDE POVERTY is curious though. Not to downplay the social problems of old resorts, but the inner cities and old industrial towns remain the places with the most severe issues.*Though, yes, I would also oppose on moral grounds, I admit. Have you been to Morecambe?  |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 30, 2017 11:09:39 GMT
It would have created a fair bit of employment for prostitutes and drug dealers, debt and addiction councillors, extra policing, extra work in the local hospitals, womans refugees. I think you'll find Blackpool achieves that without any need for a megacasino. There's clearly a broader issue of "what do we do with seaside resorts which have outlived their past role" e.g. Blackpool, Morecambe, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Great Yarmouth, Skegness, Clacton etc etc Have visited there a few times, it seems rather less down at heel than most on that list tbh. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 30, 2017 12:54:46 GMT
The experience of the USA suggests strongly that regeneration-via-casino does not work. I'm more positive about Blair era urban policy than many (in part because critics rarely ever suggested plausible alternatives) but that idea was a duff one.* Of course Blackpool's problem is the same as the other 'pool down the coast; structural economic change beyond its control robbed it of its function as a place. The fashionable emphasis on SEASIDE POVERTY is curious though. Not to downplay the social problems of old resorts, but the inner cities and old industrial towns remain the places with the most severe issues. *Though, yes, I would also oppose on moral grounds, I admit. Its not a general panacea - but if the Blackpool one was unique and could act as a hub then it could have helped there, specifically. As we do have strong regulation, it could have worked, and I haven't seen anything taking its place on my last visit... |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 30, 2017 12:56:41 GMT
The experience of the USA suggests strongly that regeneration-via-casino does not work. I'm more positive about Blair era urban policy than many (in part because critics rarely ever suggested plausible alternatives) but that idea was a duff one.* Of course Blackpool's problem is the same as the other 'pool down the coast; structural economic change beyond its control robbed it of its function as a place. The fashionable emphasis on SEASIDE POVERTY is curious though. Not to downplay the social problems of old resorts, but the inner cities and old industrial towns remain the places with the most severe issues.*Though, yes, I would also oppose on moral grounds, I admit. Have you been to Morecambe? Used to visit regularly until very recently. There are a couple of wards which are statistically as poor as anywhere in the inner city |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 30, 2017 18:15:33 GMT
I think you'll find Blackpool achieves that without any need for a megacasino. There's clearly a broader issue of "what do we do with seaside resorts which have outlived their past role" e.g. Blackpool, Morecambe, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Great Yarmouth, Skegness, Clacton etc etc Have visited there a few times, it seems rather less down at heel than most on that list tbh. Parts are actually quite nice, but it went through a phase of residents killing each other, which is never an encouraging sign. DoI: I was born in CB. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 0:18:09 GMT
Has there been anything that has happened in Clacton recently which might affect the local branch of the UK Independence Party? I haven't been paying close attention to the news. Nothing has happened in 40 years in Clacton, which is why the town is in such a godawful state, and why people vote UKIP in desperation. Neglected seaside resorts left to rot by their Conservative councils are a disgrace to Britain. Aside from the fact that most have a labour council. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Mar 31, 2017 0:24:06 GMT
The experience of the USA suggests strongly that regeneration-via-casino does not work. I'm more positive about Blair era urban policy than many (in part because critics rarely ever suggested plausible alternatives) but that idea was a duff one.* Of course Blackpool's problem is the same as the other 'pool down the coast; structural economic change beyond its control robbed it of its function as a place. The fashionable emphasis on SEASIDE POVERTY is curious though. Not to downplay the social problems of old resorts, but the inner cities and old industrial towns remain the places with the most severe issues.*Though, yes, I would also oppose on moral grounds, I admit. Have you been to Morecambe? To my intense regret I admit that I have. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 8:08:59 GMT
Excluding the week between Christmas and New Year (and other excusable times of year), when was the last time that there were no council by-elections at all on a Thursday, as last night? And how often does that happen?
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hedgehog
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 31, 2017 8:20:46 GMT
The experience of the USA suggests strongly that regeneration-via-casino does not work. I'm more positive about Blair era urban policy than many (in part because critics rarely ever suggested plausible alternatives) but that idea was a duff one.* Of course Blackpool's problem is the same as the other 'pool down the coast; structural economic change beyond its control robbed it of its function as a place. The fashionable emphasis on SEASIDE POVERTY is curious though. Not to downplay the social problems of old resorts, but the inner cities and old industrial towns remain the places with the most severe issues. *Though, yes, I would also oppose on moral grounds, I admit. Its not a general panacea - but if the Blackpool one was unique and could act as a hub then it could have helped there, specifically. As we do have strong regulation, it could have worked, and I haven't seen anything taking its place on my last visit... Leaving aside moral considerations, do large capital projects often lead to people being priced out of communities, do they always benefit the people at the bottom of the heap ?, in all likelihood the firm running with mega casino won't be British either, so profits will go directly to overseas investers. My thoughts on regeneration would be to look at how we can improve the lives of the worst off directly, starting with investing in decent homes and training. Look at this idea www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinical/prescribing/boilers-on-prescription-scheme-cut-gp-visits-by-60/20031382.article , whisper it quietly but it was a Lib Dem initiative under Ed Davey. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 31, 2017 11:04:35 GMT
Excluding the week between Christmas and New Year (and other excusable times of year), when was the last time that there were no council by-elections at all on a Thursday, as last night? And how often does that happen? I think it has happened a few occasions before, in August and around Easter being the usual previous occurrences. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 11:10:58 GMT
Excluding the week between Christmas and New Year (and other excusable times of year), when was the last time that there were no council by-elections at all on a Thursday, as last night? And how often does that happen? I think it has happened a few occasions before, in August and around Easter being the usual previous occurrences. Usually a few barren weeks before the 2015/19 cycle too. |
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john07
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Post by john07 on Apr 3, 2017 22:33:06 GMT
Labour did have a plan to really help Blackpool - the megacasino. It got squashed due to fairly misplaced moral objections. (BTW I grew up in Scarborough so I do know about seaside resorts) I thought Manchester won the right to host it? The site was right next to the current Etihad Stadium. It was a Blair policy that was quashed quickly by Gordon Brown. |
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