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Post by yellowperil on Apr 18, 2017 12:07:17 GMT
If it goes ahead I cannot think of any better use of LD resources than going all out to win Gorton, and for the electorate the temptation to make a point could hardly be greater as maybe there would be no long term consequences. Then of course, what's the record for the shortest lived MP in place?
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Apr 18, 2017 12:08:51 GMT
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 18, 2017 13:13:14 GMT
The Liverpool Edge Hill byelection in 1979 was actually held after the no-confidence bill that brought down the government IIRC?
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Post by justin124 on Apr 18, 2017 13:33:38 GMT
Don't know about the timing, but quite possible that Manchester Gorton will be the first byelection since 1924 to be cancelled by a dissolution of Parliament. 25 working days before June 8th looks like just before May 4th (I confess I am not sure what "before"means legally, but there is a bank holiday in there But surely cancelling an election one day before when up to 8000 people have already voted would cause absolute chaos! Postal votes go out on Friday... Anyway I think Corbyn has demonstrated his 100% lack of any political nous by going along with this. All Labour have to do is abstain, the motion will fail under the FTPA, and May will look incredibly weak as her only option becomes to call a vote of no confidence in herself! I agree 100% with you. It would also bring about the Constitutional uncertainty and chaos associated with such a vote. Some believe Corbyn could have ended up as Caretaker PM for the election period. |
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Post by johnloony on Apr 18, 2017 13:52:04 GMT
I would like to have this confirmed by a reliable source I don't understand how it can't happen given the fact it's already started. The law says that any parliamentary by-elections which are in progress are immediately abandoned when Parliament is dissolved, so it depends on the precise timing of the dissolution. |
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Andrew_S
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Post by Andrew_S on Apr 18, 2017 13:54:07 GMT
Total confusion: Downing Street says it will take place, David Davis says it won't.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Apr 18, 2017 13:54:29 GMT
I don't understand how it can't happen given the fact it's already started. The law says that any parliamentary by-elections which are in progress are immediately abandoned when Parliament is dissolved, so it depends on the precise timing of the dissolution. Thank you. That I did not know. Dissolution won't happen until next week at the earliest and I think it's today postal votes get sent out. |
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Post by andrew111 on Apr 18, 2017 14:17:39 GMT
The law says that any parliamentary by-elections which are in progress are immediately abandoned when Parliament is dissolved, so it depends on the precise timing of the dissolution. Thank you. That I did not know. Dissolution won't happen until next week at the earliest and I think it's today postal votes get sent out. under the FTPA, dissolution happens 25 working days before the election... With a bank holiday and depending on the interpretation of "before", that seems to be just before May 4th.. But until dissolution presumably nothing legal has happened so the by-election cannot be called off. So potentially we have the absolutely ridiculous situation of a by-election being called off the day before and after several thousand votes have been cast... This is what happens when incompetent people like Theresa May are in charge of the ship... |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 18, 2017 14:39:30 GMT
Sky report it will be cancelled.
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Post by johnloony on Apr 18, 2017 14:41:41 GMT
The law says that any parliamentary by-elections which are in progress are immediately abandoned when Parliament is dissolved, so it depends on the precise timing of the dissolution. I know that from memory, but just from a few minutes of browsing, I can't find where it actually says so in any of my F.W.S. Craig books - or indeed, when and where it last happened. |
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Post by johnloony on Apr 18, 2017 14:44:03 GMT
Thank you. That I did not know. Dissolution won't happen until next week at the earliest and I think it's today postal votes get sent out. under the FTPA, dissolution happens 25 working days before the election... With a bank holiday and depending on the interpretation of "before", that seems to be just before May 4th.. But until dissolution presumably nothing legal has happened so the by-election cannot be called off. So potentially we have the absolutely ridiculous situation of a by-election being called off the day before and after several thousand votes have been cast... This is what happens when incompetent people like Theresa May are in charge of the ship... Being a psephological spoilsport because of one day's overlap in a technical piece of legislation was probably fairly low down on Mrs May's list of criteria by which she assessed and reached her decision. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Apr 18, 2017 14:45:23 GMT
The Liverpool Edge Hill byelection in 1979 was actually held after the no-confidence bill that brought down the government IIRC? Yes but I think it was the next day. Parliament sat for a few more days to pass essential legislation - in particular a budget had to be passed to enable revenue collection and this couldn't wait for a general election. David Alton's maiden speech was made before the dissolution. |
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Post by Andrew_S on Apr 18, 2017 14:46:35 GMT
Lidington: Parliament to be dissolved on 2nd May.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Apr 18, 2017 14:54:32 GMT
Lidington: Parliament to be dissolved on 2nd May. Aah, the twentieth anniversary of that dark, dark day. |
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Post by Andrew_S on Apr 18, 2017 14:56:39 GMT
Lidington: Parliament to be dissolved on 2nd May. Aah, the twentieth anniversary of that dark, dark day. Yes it is. That date definitely means the Gorton by-election is off unless I've got it completely wrong. |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 18, 2017 14:57:20 GMT
Thank you. That I did not know. Dissolution won't happen until next week at the earliest and I think it's today postal votes get sent out. under the FTPA, dissolution happens 25 working days before the election... With a bank holiday and depending on the interpretation of "before", that seems to be just before May 4th.. But until dissolution presumably nothing legal has happened so the by-election cannot be called off. So potentially we have the absolutely ridiculous situation of a by-election being called off the day before and after several thousand votes have been cast... This is what happens when incompetent people like Theresa May are in charge of the ship... That is a foolish remark. This is not a matter of competency but of happenstance. At times events coincide and due process makes a nonsense of normal habits. It is rare and of no consequence to politics or the nation except in one place. Even there it will affect less than 10% of the population at all. It is one of those things where process may appear to be a nonsense, but better than giving a person or an office the power to stop elections as that could be abused. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 18, 2017 14:58:05 GMT
Lidington: Parliament to be dissolved on 2nd May. Aah, the twentieth anniversary of that dark, dark day. Dark? I recall it being lovely and sunny, not inappropriately  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 15:09:42 GMT
Aah, the twentieth anniversary of that dark, dark day. Dark? I recall it being lovely and sunny, not inappropriately However, now: "Things can only get bitter!" Sigh..... |
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Post by johnloony on Apr 18, 2017 15:20:34 GMT
www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/dissolution/under the FTPA, dissolution happens 25 working days before the election... With a bank holiday and depending on the interpretation of "before", that seems to be just before May 4th.. But until dissolution presumably nothing legal has happened so the by-election cannot be called off. So potentially we have the absolutely ridiculous situation of a by-election being called off the day before and after several thousand votes have been cast... This is what happens when incompetent people like Theresa May are in charge of the ship... That is a foolish remark. This is not a matter of competency but of happenstance. At times events coincide and due process makes a nonsense of normal habits. It is rare and of no consequence to politics or the nation except in one place. Even there it will affect less than 10% of the population at all. It is one of those things where process may appear to be a nonsense, but better than giving a person or an office the power to stop elections as that could be abused. I remember that one foolish media article (I can't remember where, or who) was speculating that there might be an early general election which would be held "on the same day as the Hartlepool by-election". Anyway, it's a pity that they can't just carry on with the Gorton by-election anyway, just for us psephologists. |
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Post by andrew111 on Apr 18, 2017 15:44:30 GMT
www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/dissolution/under the FTPA, dissolution happens 25 working days before the election... With a bank holiday and depending on the interpretation of "before", that seems to be just before May 4th.. But until dissolution presumably nothing legal has happened so the by-election cannot be called off. So potentially we have the absolutely ridiculous situation of a by-election being called off the day before and after several thousand votes have been cast... This is what happens when incompetent people like Theresa May are in charge of the ship... That is a foolish remark. This is not a matter of competency but of happenstance. At times events coincide and due process makes a nonsense of normal habits. It is rare and of no consequence to politics or the nation except in one place. Even there it will affect less than 10% of the population at all. It is one of those things where process may appear to be a nonsense, but better than giving a person or an office the power to stop elections as that could be abused. It is the job of Prime Ministers to anticipate consequences of their decisions. This one potentially puts the Gorton by-election into chaos and wastes a good deal of money. If Theresa May was competent she would have engineered the election for 4th May to save some money in our straightened economic times. Alternatively she could have nominated 15th June as polling day in her speech today, which would have avoided the question. But I presume the announcement the day after Easter and the timetable is all part of a calculation of electoral advantage. It is not the first time she has shown lack of competence - www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-faces-parliamentary-investigation-over-flimsy-basis-for-student-deportations-a6948796.htmlAnyway, Parliament has the power to stop this election tomorrow by simply abstaining. That would be the constitutional thing to do given the FTPA and the Labour Party are crazy not to be doing it. That would expose Theresa's hubris and force her either to appear like Erdogan by changing the law to suit herself, or call a vote of no confidence in her own government, which everyone could enthusiastically support! |
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