Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,844 
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Post by Crimson King on Feb 24, 2017 10:29:30 GMT
Blair's intervention last Friday was, by reliable accounts, mentioned as a reason for not voting Labour in both Stoke and Copeland. I'm not going to pretend it was the main reason for the latter result in particular. But it didn't help. I'm not surprised, It's almost as if was calculated to damage the leader |
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 24, 2017 10:33:04 GMT
Really crap for Labour but I suspect they will survive this. Not a good night for UKIP There is no doubt at all about the survival, but the damage is enormous with many guns destroyed, and steering gone and dazed captain in smoking ruins of the bridge. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 24, 2017 10:33:20 GMT
Blair's intervention last Friday was, by reliable accounts, mentioned as a reason for not voting Labour in both Stoke and Copeland. Whose reliable accounts would they be? Richard Burgon? Cat Smith? Tom Delargy? |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,940
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 24, 2017 10:39:29 GMT
People on the ground.
I'm really not in the mood for your smart-arsedery this morning. Just saying.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 24, 2017 10:41:42 GMT
It's not my job to make the Corbynites feel comfortable that they've managed to lose a seat that's been Labour for 80 years.
It is my job to make them feel as uncomfortable about it as I possibly can.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,940
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 24, 2017 10:42:53 GMT
Don't call me a Corbynite, especially since I have never voted for him as leader and never will.
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 24, 2017 10:43:03 GMT
I'm expecting "hostile media" (which will ignore the News & Star), "countryside" (which will ignore it being a long-time Labour seat) and "weather" (which will ignore the weather being the same for every voter). I wonder which Labour figure will get closest to blaming the voters. The ever vigilant party striving for the rights of workers has lost confidence in the unresponsive proletariat. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 24, 2017 10:43:56 GMT
Don't call me a Corbynite, especially since I have never voted for him as leader and never will. If this doesn't convince you to work every minute to get Corbyn to resign, then nothing will. |
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 24, 2017 10:45:08 GMT
Just heard the shadow chancellor on the radio. Apparently Labour failed to "break through" in Copeland because of "exceptional circumstances". He being an actual exceptional circumstance himself. |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Feb 24, 2017 10:45:49 GMT
I should add that the seats that the Lib Dems could win or move back into a strong second if there were a GE tomorrow are places with bigger Labour/Green votes than UKIP votes in 2015. My list for England and Wales (they stand a good chance in NE Fife and Edinburgh West as well) Bath Twickenham Kingston Colchester Cheadle Portsmouth S Brecon and Radnor Hazel Grove Lewes and Eastbourne they are close enough to have a chance too Plus they should beat Labour in Cambridge and have a chance in Cardiff Central, Burnley and Bermondsey Then Southport and (at a push) North Norfolk may well go the other way. My instinct is that the limited Labour vote that exists in Bath would be attracted to Corbyn. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,940
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 24, 2017 10:47:01 GMT
Thanks DB but I can do without the lectures. Describing everybody not infatuated with late period Blairism as "Corbynites" is part of the problem.
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 24, 2017 10:51:51 GMT
So whats the largest Labour seat by area now? Bishop Auckland I think? But only until 2020! |
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,789
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Post by right on Feb 24, 2017 10:52:08 GMT
The Corbynite view that is coming out (and no I'm not including The Bishop ) seems to be that the unique dependence on nuclear power killed the Labour campaign. That has more than a nugget of truth in it, but it should worry Labour more not less. Corbyn's (past?) anti-nuclear stance is part of the package of middle class leftery that is alienating the working class core voters. It's the package that should be worrying Labour, not the fact that one part of it was used effectively. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 24, 2017 10:52:32 GMT
The time for neutrality is ending. If you're not actively opposing Corbyn, you're now objectively a Corbynite. I refer you to Orwell's essay on Pacifism and the War.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,940
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 24, 2017 10:54:33 GMT
The Corbynite view that is coming out (and no I'm not including The Bishop) seems to be that the unique dependence on nuclear power killed the Labour campaign. That seems to have more than a nugget of truth in it, but that's far less comforting. Corbyn's (past?) anti-nuclear stance is part of the package of middle class leftery that is alienating the working class core voters. It's the package that should be worrying Labour, not the fact that one part of it was used effectively. The thing is though, its mainly historic. Even many younger Labour lefties are quite comfortable with nuclear *power*. (its part of a wider trend too, cf George Monbiot's conversion to its virtues) |
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xftrev
Lib Dem
Post Brexit City State of London
Posts: 183
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Post by xftrev on Feb 24, 2017 10:59:32 GMT
I still smell a very strong whiff of scapegoat regarding Blair. I fail to understand why his pronouncements about Brexit should influence anyone - if people embraced his position en masse then the LibDems would have surged. The reason Labour lost is a desperately unpopular and incredible leader with policies to match. Until the hard left takes its head out of its collective backside and gets real, then catastrophe remains their certain destiny.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,940
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 24, 2017 11:03:10 GMT
Well the LibDems went up in both seats did they not?
And it was people reacting *against* his position in Brexit-voting seats that was the problem for Labour tbh.
(to repeat, I am not saying it caused the Copeland disaster - nobody is save a few online idiots; it may help explain the scale of the Tory win though)
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right
Conservative
Posts: 18,789
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Post by right on Feb 24, 2017 11:11:06 GMT
Well the LibDems went up in both seats did they not? And it was people reacting *against* his position in Brexit-voting seats that was the problem for Labour tbh. (to repeat, I am not saying it caused the Copeland disaster - nobody is save a few online idiots; it may help explain the scale of the Tory win though) McDonnell came close to putting the blame on Blair (and Mandleson) and Ian Lavery said something similar. But yeah, the idea that a former Prime Minister undermining the party position could not cut through to voters is silly. |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,311
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Post by maxque on Feb 24, 2017 11:13:02 GMT
The time for neutrality is ending. If you're not actively opposing Corbyn, you're now objectively a Corbynite. I refer you to Orwell's essay on Pacifism and the War. Well, there is people opposing Corbyn, but who think than putting a Blair-clone person as leader wouldn't do much good either, so, they don't want to be associated with you. The easiest way to get rid of Corbyn is an alliance between people like you and anti-Corbyn leftists, but you will need to drop the Blair idolatry for that to happen. You'll need to compromise to get rid of Corbyn (as a proof, the offering of your side failed two times to beat Corbyn). |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 24, 2017 11:13:49 GMT
Owen Smith was not "my side". He was on the left of the party.
And there is no "Blair-clone" candidate available.
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