Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 15:43:01 GMT
I don’t think anyone has claimed Starmer will win the next election, we’ve got at least 3 years before genuine predictions can be made on that front I think. Oh, you should listen to the right wing of your erstwhile party. They appear convinced that all we need is a man in a suit and an officer-class demeanor and Johnson's cheap populism will be overturned with ease. They haven't a clue. I reckon you're a spoof. I haven't been here for long, but I reckon this is some kind of joke. # The name: MerseyMike is tagging into the whole lefty scouser bit, maybe you thought of ClydesideCliff or something like, but probably that's too dated # The whole Citizen Smith shtick: "how can I be as comical & nonsensically lefty as possible" as divorced from reality as you can, "how can I push the boundary" - preferring Trump is over-cooking it. # Even your backstory, especially the job, is pure Tom Sharpe, much too much of a flag. I'm calling you out, but got to ask, how long did you think the joke would run ?? |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Mar 11, 2020 15:48:00 GMT
So, let me get this right, Joe Biden has just amassed a broad coalition of African Americans, suburban middle class whites and both rural and urban blue collar whites that has allowed him to win primaries, mostly with very high turnout, in 15 states across the nation, be it New England, the Deep South, the industrial Mid West or the Sun Belt. Meanwhile Bernie Sanders has completed failed to advance beyond his core support and with the enhanced turnout has been trounced in places that he won, or came close, 4 years ago and has even disappointed in some of his most favourable states. Only Nevada (a caucus state) gave him a genuine impressive result. Everywhere else he has been underwhelming even when he has won. Yet considering all of this the conclusion that some people have reached is that Biden cannot win the general elections where as Sanders would likely beat Trump. Sure makes sense to me.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 11, 2020 15:48:13 GMT
I am interested to know how conservative members of this site would vote in the USA, as it is common for Conservative politicians/supporters in the UK to have been supporters of the Democrats in the past/present. Joe Biden without a shadow of a doubt. Trump is awful and I am deeply concerned the GOP is becoming tied to him and his bizarre cult in a way which will be difficult to extricate itself from. My avatar shows the kind of fundamentally decent and optimistic Republican Party I want. |
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Post by ibfc on Mar 11, 2020 15:55:29 GMT
One key argument used against Corbyn for most of his time as leader was polling, yes those same polls that consistently show Sanders more electorally viable than Biden when it comes to beating Trump (which I had, perhaps naively, assumed was the whole point of the excercise) And the idea that Mondale and Dukakis were outlandish left wingers is somewhat hard to sustain as well. There were other reasons for the GOP dominance in the 80s. I am rather looking forward to reminding centrists of their predictions when both Biden and Starmer don't win. I am no centrist and agree more with you (or at least your thought process if not your conclusions) on several issues than with any centrists but it is very likely that Biden is going to win. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Mar 11, 2020 15:55:53 GMT
All in all a complete and utter rout. It is hard to see what Sanders can achieve from this point on other than damage Biden ahead of the general election. The smart move now is to concede and then work his socks off to elect Biden and a Democratic Senate majority. In that scenario he will become Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, not the best job in Washington, but one that makes him a seriously player where he can push his agenda. What would be the point? He was an independent for years and there would be very little point in taking on this role. Best bet is to continue to damage Biden so he loses and then look towards the next generation. What on earth are you blithering on about. He has caucused with the Democrats for the whole of his time in the Senate. He was Chairman the Veterans Affairs Committee from 2013-2015* and has been Ranking Member (that is the lead member of the minority party) of the Budget Committee since 2015. If the Democrats take the Senate he will of course take the Chairmanship of that committee. * He was widely considered to have done a good job in that position. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 16:01:45 GMT
I am rather looking forward to reminding centrists of their predictions when both Biden and Starmer don't win. I am no centrist and agree more with you (or at least your thought process if not your conclusions) on several issues than with any centrists but it is very likely that Biden is going to win. we'll see |
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Post by curiousliberal on Mar 11, 2020 16:05:32 GMT
What would be the point? He was an independent for years and there would be very little point in taking on this role. Best bet is to continue to damage Biden so he loses and then look towards the next generation. What on earth are you blithering on about. He has caucused with the Democrats for the whole of his time in the Senate. He was Chairman the Veterans Affairs Committee from 2013-2015* and has been Ranking Member (that is the lead member of the minority party) of the Budget Committee since 2015. If the Democrats take the Senate he will of course take the Chairmanship of that committee. * He was widely considered to have done a good job in that position.Not something for him to write home about, given the complaints controversy he presided over at the tail end of his time in that role. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 11, 2020 16:12:20 GMT
Bernie's making an announcement at the top of the hour.
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Post by curiousliberal on Mar 11, 2020 16:25:11 GMT
Bernie's making an announcement at the top of the hour. I won't write off the possibility that he denies Biden a majority on the off-chance that there is a seismic (and largely post-debate) shift, but quitting now while there's still room for loss on Biden's part gives him more influence than a string of comprehensive defeats, though not necessarily more influence than a drawn-out, close-run primary season in which Biden has to make policy concessions. If Biden's smart, he'll probably have struck a good deal with Sanders by now to ensure his exit. I wonder how much of an irritant Gabbard will become if she's left alone in the race with Biden. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 17:09:51 GMT
I am interested to know how conservative members of this site would vote in the USA, as it is common for Conservative politicians/supporters in the UK to have been supporters of the Democrats in the past/present. I’d be a swing voter in the US. I could see myself voting for Reagan in ‘80 & ‘84, Bush Snr. in ‘88 & ‘92, Clinton in ‘96, Gore in 2000, Bush Jr. in ‘04, probably Obama in ‘08, Romney in ‘12, spoiled my ballot in ‘16; this time Biden if he gets the nomination (but Trump if against Sanders). I’d probably be considered quite a lefty in the US for where I stand on social issues regarding gun rights, abortion and gay marriage; and I would’ve supported Obamacare. In terms of economics, defence and foreign policy I would side with the Republicans. I imagine quite a few British Conservatives would be the same. |
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,647
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Post by mboy on Mar 11, 2020 17:18:11 GMT
Bernie statement: "We fight on!" A 1-on-1 debate will be good for Biden to sharpen up, so that's cool by me. It was rich with "We won the argument (but lost the elections)" guff they obviously learned from Corbyn though, lol.  |
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Post by edgbaston on Mar 11, 2020 17:32:36 GMT
I don’t think this is necessarily true, but it is scary food for thought.
Also for the 100000th time US politics is very different to UK politics. Bernie Sanders is not Jeremy Corbyn. And in America the centre ground is both in a different place - and - has many fewer occupants than the UK due to high partisanship.
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Post by bjornhattan on Mar 11, 2020 17:35:12 GMT
I am interested to know how conservative members of this site would vote in the USA, as it is common for Conservative politicians/supporters in the UK to have been supporters of the Democrats in the past/present. I would be pretty torn, but whilst most moderate Democrats seem reasonable on economics, their entire party's stance on social issues, and especially their extreme views on immigration, mean they definitely couldn't win my vote. Having said that, I'm no fan of Trump's approach (his confrontational nature might be refreshing but it's far from productive), so I might be tempted to vote third party. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 17:44:23 GMT
Sanders is vastly more electable than Corbyn. Indeed. Sanders is ten times the politician that Jeremy Corbyn was, and has actually had a responsible political job (Mayor of Burlington for eight years is not nothing). He has also succeeded in winning multiple state-wide elections as an Independent. Corbyn has managed to win a safe Parliamentary seat as part of a major political party. Well maybe if his opponents within the party had offered some policy concessions and run with that line rather than going "who really needs proper wages or the NHS?" we wouldn't be in this mess. |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 11, 2020 17:59:01 GMT
Indeed. Sanders is ten times the politician that Jeremy Corbyn was, and has actually had a responsible political job (Mayor of Burlington for eight years is not nothing). He has also succeeded in winning multiple state-wide elections as an Independent. Corbyn has managed to win a safe Parliamentary seat as part of a major political party. Well maybe if his opponents within the party had offered some policy concessions and run with that line rather than going "who really needs proper wages or the NHS?" we wouldn't be in this mess. I don't understand that statement at all, or how it relates to Sanders. |
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 11, 2020 18:02:01 GMT
thanks for deleting. Its a sad day when someone's loyalty is rewarded with name calling. I don't care your politics I respect a loyal tory more than Labour carpetbagger Is this a dig at me? Odd for someone on the left to support IDS more than say Rosie Cooper but okay. priceofdawn was talking about respect, rather than support. It's perfectly possible to respect somebody who you absolutely oppose, and have no respect for somebody who is on your "side" and are actively working with. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 11, 2020 18:05:29 GMT
Likewise, the US Democratic Party will have to go through another 1984 (and 1988) at some point. I'm modestly encouraged that they have managed to avoid it this year. Is it possible to have another 1984 (or 1972 - or in reverse 1964 or 1936) any time soon? The US seems to much more polarised these days that a near clean sweep seems impossible now. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 11, 2020 18:12:00 GMT
I am interested to know how conservative members of this site would vote in the USA, as it is common for Conservative politicians/supporters in the UK to have been supporters of the Democrats in the past/present. There's a rather noisy bunch, traditionally found in successive generations of the youth wing, who will back the Republicans at all costs. However this seems to be a loudest but not necessarily largest grouping - about 15 years ago a researcher surveyed members including the question of how they would have voted in 2004 and it wasn't exactly the Bushfest the noise suggested. Personally I would be a floater leaning moderate Republican and dreaming of past great Republicans who actually fitted the mould. Of the elections in my adulthood I supported at the time: 2000 - Bush (as he was only going to fuck up the US - remember he was an isolationist that year! Gore seemed set to fuck up the planet) 2004 - Kerry 2008 - McCain 2012 - Write-in some fictional character (maybe give Howard the Duck another try?) 2016 - Johnson |
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myth11
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too busy at work!
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Post by myth11 on Mar 11, 2020 18:55:26 GMT
Bernie statement: "We fight on!" A 1-on-1 debate will be good for Biden to sharpen up, so that's cool by me. It was rich with "We won the argument (but lost the elections)" guff they obviously learned from Corbyn though, lol. To be fair to Bernie the winning line on the first vote is 1990 and Biden is not close to that plus he is not yet over 50% of already decided Delegates. Its a small chance but you never know he might got very lucky. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Mar 11, 2020 18:57:45 GMT
I am interested to know how conservative members of this site would vote in the USA, as it is common for Conservative politicians/supporters in the UK to have been supporters of the Democrats in the past/present. Republican. Always Republican. The first election I can remember is the one in 1992. I recall my elder brothers predicting a Bush win, having seen what the Conservatives here in the UK had pulled off in the April. I did have some reservations about the mental capacities of Dubya and Trump, and credited Bill Clinton over his successful handling of the economy and foreign affairs (notwithstanding his extra marital affairs). |
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