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Post by Adam in Stroud on Mar 11, 2020 13:19:30 GMT
Four more years for Trump. Biden is not worth voting for and has very little to say other than proposing warmed up technocratic centralism. He will lose and will deserve to. An arguably more pertinent point is that Biden no longer up to it, and the coming months will make this obvious. I know that the usual suspects on here will jump on me for saying this, so don't bother. Let's just see who is ultimately right, shall we? Truth is, the Democrats should have coalesced behind Warren when they had the chance.Perhaps, but way too late now. The question now is whether to coalesce behind Bernie or Biden. It seems clear that it is going to be the latter. Do you think Sanders is more robust? (Non-rhetorical) |
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 11, 2020 13:31:13 GMT
I am interested to know how conservative members of this site would vote in the USA, as it is common for Conservative politicians/supporters in the UK to have been supporters of the Democrats in the past/present.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 13:37:48 GMT
An arguably more pertinent point is that Biden no longer up to it, and the coming months will make this obvious. I know that the usual suspects on here will jump on me for saying this, so don't bother. Let's just see who is ultimately right, shall we? Truth is, the Democrats should have coalesced behind Warren when they had the chance. Doing the opposite of what you think they should do is usually the best for left of centre parties. that seems a rather unfair comment given Bishop loyalty to the centre left |
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Post by mrpastelito on Mar 11, 2020 13:41:55 GMT
Doing the opposite of what you think they should do is usually the best for left of centre parties. that seems a rather unfair comment given Bishop loyalty to the centre left Loyalty and political nous are two entirely different matters. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 13:43:22 GMT
that seems a rather unfair comment given Bishop loyalty to the centre left Loyalty and political nous are two entirely different matters. Pretty much this, show me someone loyal the the Labour Party in the last five years and I’ll show you a fool. anyway, not the thread for this. Message deleted. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 13:44:52 GMT
that seems a rather unfair comment given Bishop loyalty to the centre left Loyalty and political nous are two entirely different matters. very little of anyone has either and the latter is often used as an excuse to shove aside opinions from people in the former |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 13:47:21 GMT
Loyalty and political nous are two entirely different matters. Pretty much this, show me someone loyal the the Labour Party in the last five years and I’ll show you a fool. anyway, not the thread for this. Message deleted. thanks for deleting. Its a sad day when someone's loyalty is rewarded with name calling. I don't care your politics I respect a loyal tory more than Labour carpetbagger |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 13:47:56 GMT
I am interested to know how conservative members of this site would vote in the USA, as it is common for Conservative politicians/supporters in the UK to have been supporters of the Democrats in the past/present. I'd be an independent in the US, and who I'd vote for (if anyone)* would depend on the choice of candidates. * Addendum |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 13:51:04 GMT
Pretty much this, show me someone loyal the the Labour Party in the last five years and I’ll show you a fool. anyway, not the thread for this. Message deleted. thanks for deleting. Its a sad day when someone's loyalty is rewarded with name calling. I don't care your politics I respect a loyal tory more than Labour carpetbagger Is this a dig at me? Odd for someone on the left to support IDS more than say Rosie Cooper but okay. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 13:57:42 GMT
thanks for deleting. Its a sad day when someone's loyalty is rewarded with name calling. I don't care your politics I respect a loyal tory more than Labour carpetbagger Is this a dig at me? Odd for someone on the left to support IDS more than say Rosie Cooper but okay. it is not a dig at you no. I actually have a great deal of respect for IDS. I disagree with him on almost everything but his resignation from DWP was probably the most honest resignation since Robin Cook maybe. I'm not a free marketeer but if I were I'd agree with every word he said in his statement |
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Post by curiousliberal on Mar 11, 2020 14:12:14 GMT
Four more years for Trump. Biden is not worth voting for and has very little to say other than proposing warmed up technocratic centralism. He will lose and will deserve to. An arguably more pertinent point is that Biden no longer up to it, and the coming months will make this obvious. I know that the usual suspects on here will jump on me for saying this, so don't bother. Let's just see who is ultimately right, shall we? Truth is, the Democrats should have coalesced behind Warren when they had the chance.Probably the least likely to beat Trump, besides Steyer and Buttigieg. She might have fared better in the primary, but that is often worse than losing it if followed by a GE defeat. I'll write more on Sanders' campaign in a bit, but Warren showed political judgement which set her already weaker candidacy up for electoral disaster, and the polls showed it. A bullet dodged, and for once it's fortunate that Bernieworld vitriol towards her exists - unless she improves significantly in terms of strategy, the Democrats' left wing will need to look elsewhere for a 2024 candidate to unite around. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 11, 2020 14:31:04 GMT
What would be the point? He was an independent for years and there would be very little point in taking on this role. Best bet is to continue to damage Biden so he loses and then look towards the next generation. Just so I've understood, are you saying that in a Trump-Biden contest you would be hoping that Trump wins? It would be the same as the Macron-Lepen contest. I wouldn't vote for either. Biden is singularly useless and I really can't work out why that isn't blatantly obvious. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 11, 2020 14:32:31 GMT
And assuming Biden now has it in the bag and that is it for Sanders given his age, it might be worth remembering that future "left" challenges are likely to come indisputably from *within* the party. The deeply tribal line that "Sanders isn't really a Democrat", used to some effect both now and in 2016, simply won't be viable. Well, Biden will lose, so it will hopefully make them realise they can't continue to play safe. Its not as if the Republicans didn't realise that! |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 11, 2020 14:35:37 GMT
Not just mobilising (older) African Americans but also getting the support of white suburban voters who have haemorrhaged away from the Republican Party under Trump, and who will likely be the decisive voters, as they were in the 2018 midterms, throughout much of the country in November. This. We are ignoring the fact that large numbers of conservative white suburban women cannot stomach Donald Trump and they will be the key to the next election, insomuch that their turnout will swing close elections. Joe Biden has more hope of attracting them to vote for him than just sitting on their hands. To get a failed VP who appears to be heading towards senility? Not sure if thats a good thing. What happens if he gets elected and then isn;t capable of doing the job? Does he resign and the Veep take over? Is there any mechanism for ensuring this? |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Mar 11, 2020 14:35:37 GMT
Just so I've understood, are you saying that in a Trump-Biden contest you would be hoping that Trump wins? It would be the same as the Macron-Lepen contest. I wouldn't vote for either. Biden is singularly useless and I really can't work out why that isn't blatantly obvious. It is reasonable to make a case that it is better to have a useless POTUS than one who is actively (and potentially, catastrophically) destructive, incompetent and worse than useless. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 11, 2020 14:36:38 GMT
It would be the same as the Macron-Lepen contest. I wouldn't vote for either. Biden is singularly useless and I really can't work out why that isn't blatantly obvious. It is reasonable to make a case that it is better to have a useless POTUS than one who is actively (and potentially, catastrophically) destructive, incompetent and worse than useless. Its also possible to make the opposite case, p[articularly if he refused to resign - and Biden's ego makes that likely |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 11, 2020 14:42:08 GMT
One key argument used against Corbyn for most of his time as leader was polling, yes those same polls that consistently show Sanders more electorally viable than Biden when it comes to beating Trump (which I had, perhaps naively, assumed was the whole point of the excercise) And the idea that Mondale and Dukakis were outlandish left wingers is somewhat hard to sustain as well. There were other reasons for the GOP dominance in the 80s. I am rather looking forward to reminding centrists of their predictions when both Biden and Starmer don't win. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 14:48:55 GMT
One key argument used against Corbyn for most of his time as leader was polling, yes those same polls that consistently show Sanders more electorally viable than Biden when it comes to beating Trump (which I had, perhaps naively, assumed was the whole point of the excercise) And the idea that Mondale and Dukakis were outlandish left wingers is somewhat hard to sustain as well. There were other reasons for the GOP dominance in the 80s. I am rather looking forward to reminding centrists of their predictions when both Biden and Starmer don't win. I don’t think anyone has claimed Starmer will win the next election, we’ve got at least 3 years before genuine predictions can be made on that front I think. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 11, 2020 14:53:57 GMT
I am rather looking forward to reminding centrists of their predictions when both Biden and Starmer don't win. I don’t think anyone has claimed Starmer will win the next election, we’ve got at least 3 years before genuine predictions can be made on that front I think. Oh, you should listen to the right wing of your erstwhile party. They appear convinced that all we need is a man in a suit and an officer-class demeanor and Johnson's cheap populism will be overturned with ease. They haven't a clue. |
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Mar 11, 2020 15:40:36 GMT
It is reasonable to make a case that it is better to have a useless POTUS than one who is actively (and potentially, catastrophically) destructive, incompetent and worse than useless. Its also possible to make the opposite case, p[articularly if he refused to resign - and Biden's ego makes that likely Why would he resign for being “destructive, incompetent and worse than useless”? Ford, Reagan, Bush 43 and Trump carried on regardless, as for that matter did The Messiah of Islington. Who decides the definition of “destructive, incompetent and worse than useless”? Mitch McConnell? Bernie Sanders? Fox News? Oh, and just to deny you bragging rights in November I’ll put this on the record now: I think Trump is a pretty strong favourite for re-election, but less so against Biden than Sanders. To put it in historical context I’d say we’re looking at a very similar result to 2016 with Biden as opposed to a rerun of 1972 or 1988 with Sanders. |
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