Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,036
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 29, 2017 0:45:28 GMT
 First of many, I hope. |
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mazuz
Conservative
Posts: 155 
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Post by mazuz on Mar 29, 2017 21:13:46 GMT
Negotiations between VVD, CDA, D66 and GroenLinks led by Health Minister Edith Schippers (VVD, 2010-2017, will not be part of a new coalition) have started, though all parties except D66 remain skeptical. I still expect a government with CU instead of GL to be formed. Anonymous sources within VVD and CDA told NRC that GL can only be part of the coalition if it solely focuses on green issues and drops its plans on reducing socio-economic inequality.
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 29, 2017 21:28:38 GMT
Negotiations between VVD, CDA, D66 and GroenLinks led by Health Minister Edith Schippers (VVD, 2010-2017, will not be part of a new coalition) have started, though all parties except D66 remain skeptical. I still expect a government with CU instead of GL to be formed. Anonymous sources within VVD and CDA told NRC that GL can only be part of the coalition if it solely focuses on green issues and drops its plans on reducing socio-economic inequality. GL would go the same way as Labour if they joined a right-led coalition. They should stay in opposition and be in a position to lead a centre-left coalition as many D66 voters would soon become disillusioned with propping up a right-liberal coalition as did Labour voters. D66 voters tend to be young, educated and urban. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 30, 2017 7:16:38 GMT
The big question mark is how willing D66 voters are to work with the VVD these days. Traditionally they are on friendly terms. There is this handy if somewhat pathetic guide on the D66 site to explain their differences: d66.nl/d66-vs/vvd/ |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 30, 2017 7:34:31 GMT
The big question mark is how willing D66 voters are to work with the VVD these days. Traditionally they are on friendly terms. There is this handy if somewhat pathetic guide on the D66 site to explain their differences: d66.nl/d66-vs/vvd/A handy guide..... in Dutch. Mind you even i can understand this. Regeren met Wilders? Nee! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 8:08:18 GMT
The big question mark is how willing D66 voters are to work with the VVD these days. Traditionally they are on friendly terms. There is this handy if somewhat pathetic guide on the D66 site to explain their differences: d66.nl/d66-vs/vvd/A handy guide..... in Dutch. Mind you even i can understand this. Regeren met Wilders? Nee! The Google Translate version is close enough to be understandable. "Like the D66 VVD increasing personal freedoms and strengthen our economy important. Both programs provide more jobs. Yet there are major differences. Liberalism The VVD is becoming more conservative and populist party. So they turn strongly against European cooperation against Dutch with a non-Western background and against fundamental principles of our democracy. Their opposition to the bill from D66 to regulate cannabis cultivation is far from liberal. Thus the VVD holds crime around the back of coffeeshops in position. Climate In 2015 Rutte put his signature to the climate agreement in Paris, but the VVD does not stick to those agreements. D66 is the most ambitious of all parties in addressing the climate crisis. We do this by building a modern and clean economy. Education D66 invests most of all parties in education, while the VVD pulls little extra money here." |
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,761
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Post by mboy on Mar 30, 2017 9:32:24 GMT
If the D66 and GL dont want to play then there'll be a right-wing government coalition. Then all the Dutch MerseyMike types can feel satisfied in opposition while conservatives run the country and take it in a direction they dont like.
Sound familiar?
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 30, 2017 9:40:44 GMT
If the D66 and GL dont want to play then they'll be a right-wing government coalition. The all the Dutch MerseyMike types can feel satisfied in opposition while conservatives run the country and take it in a direction they dont like. Sound familiar? And the alternative is for the liberal left to join the VVD led coalition, which then continues to pursue right wing policies, followed by the collapse of those parties at a subsequent election. A VVD led minority coalition would either have to rely on Wilders and other loons, or be short lived.... Relevant to both the Netherlands and the UK..... |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 9:49:08 GMT
If the D66 and GL dont want to play then they'll be a right-wing government coalition. The all the Dutch MerseyMike types can feel satisfied in opposition while conservatives run the country and take it in a direction they dont like. Sound familiar? And the alternative is for the liberal left to join the VVD led coalition, which then continues to pursue right wing policies, followed by the collapse of those parties at a subsequent election. A VVD led minority coalition would either have to rely on Wilders and other loons, or be short lived.... Relevant to both the Netherlands and the UK..... It would also put pressure on the CDA to move towards the centre again. The historical situation was that the CDA could ally with both the left and the right, and their drift to the right is what has broken the equilibrium of the system so only governments based on the right are possible. |
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hedgehog
Non-Aligned
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Posts: 6,826
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Post by hedgehog on Mar 30, 2017 12:33:56 GMT
If I recall correctly the Lib Dems went into that election clearly saying they would work with either side, I think there is little argument that the Lib Dems did make the coalition government greener than it would have been under a pure Conservative regime.
I think we should stop giving the Lib Dems stick for this, they were punished by their left off centre supporters, if they had gone with Labour, they would have been punished by their right off centre supporters, in short the Lib Dems were in a bind.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,946
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 30, 2017 12:36:19 GMT
For the umpteenth time - it wasn't *just* that the LibDems went into coalition with the Tories, it was HOW they did so and what happened subsequently.
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,761
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Post by mboy on Mar 30, 2017 13:06:47 GMT
Yeh yeh yeh Bish - coz as we've learned since 2015, there really is no difference between the Coalition and a Tory majority.  |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
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Post by maxque on Mar 31, 2017 7:55:12 GMT
If the D66 and GL dont want to play then there'll be a right-wing government coalition. Then all the Dutch MerseyMike types can feel satisfied in opposition while conservatives run the country and take it in a direction they dont like. Sound familiar? CDA and VVD were pretty clear they prefer CU to GL. They are just talking to GL first because they got more seats, because they want time to elapse (VVD-PvdA was seen as too quick, i.e. the other options weren't properly examined), because D66 wants GL (but they have less power than VVD, so...) and because CU insists they do (so, during VVD-CDA-D66-CU talks, they can't threathen of going with GL on disagreements points with CU, as GL talks already happened and failed). |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,946
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 31, 2017 10:28:10 GMT
Yeh yeh yeh Bish - coz as we've learned since 2015, there really is no difference between the Coalition and a Tory majority. To an extent that is true, but it is not the point. Even if coalition was unavoidable, I could provide a whole list of things you could - and should - have done differently. So could you if you are being honest..... |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 11:12:29 GMT
Yeh yeh yeh Bish - coz as we've learned since 2015, there really is no difference between the Coalition and a Tory majority. To an extent that is true, but it is not the point. Even if coalition was unavoidable, I could provide a whole list of things you could - and should - have done differently. So could you if you are being honest..... Labour did not and would not enter serious coalition talks. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,946
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 31, 2017 11:13:39 GMT
I actually agree that a rainbow coalition was unviable, "with the Tories" should really have been added to the above.
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Post by yellowperil on Mar 31, 2017 12:32:21 GMT
so was your preference a minority Tory administration? ( would just have been possible then - hardly relevant to the Dutch situation I thought this thread was about).
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,799
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Post by john07 on Mar 31, 2017 12:58:56 GMT
To an extent that is true, but it is not the point. Even if coalition was unavoidable, I could provide a whole list of things you could - and should - have done differently. So could you if you are being honest..... Labour did not and would not enter serious coalition talks. For the obvious reason that a Labour-Lib Dem coalition fell way short on votes. You would have needed most of the Green, PC, SNP, SDLP, Sylvia Hermon, to assemble a winning coalition. Not workable at all. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,946
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 31, 2017 13:12:24 GMT
Again you are evading the real point - even *if* there was no alternative to Tory/LibDem coalition, there were many things the latter could have done differently.
(and even Clegg has admitted to a few of them, its not as if this is particuarly controversial)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 15:01:51 GMT
so was your preference a minority Tory administration? ( would just have been possible then - hardly relevant to the Dutch situation I thought this thread was about). Labour members of the forum will never drop LibDem 'betrayal'. It's to them what "18 years of Tory misrule" was to, er, themselves up to and including the 2010 election. |
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