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Post by heslingtonian on Jun 13, 2020 9:12:20 GMT
Because in 1983, the Conservative Party was still in 2nd place in all the Liverpool constituencies, with three of them only about 4,000 votes behind the winning candidate. Different circumstances after 1983 might have made it viable for there to be a revival, and Conservative gains, in 1987 or 1992. The 1987 result were what put the decline beyond the point of no-return. Liverpool had experienced the first wave of Liberal activism which had certainly weakened the Tories on the ground, but certainly it was 1983-87 where they experienced the notable plunge in votes which they have never recovered from. It's more that even the sort of people who might vote Conservative elsewhere just don't and the entire absence of any Conservative presence is a very low base to start from. The last active Tory local campaign was in Allerton and Hunts Cross ward in 2008 when it was still a LibDem ward, the Tories managed to get Labour into third but have never managed it since. I sometimes say jokingly that it's more socially acceptable to be an axe murderer than a Conservative in Liverpool - they are viewed as being "against" the city and its very ingrained now. What about Conservative-inclined voters who move to Liverpool? Do they jettison their previous voting habits because of the reasons you describe? |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 13, 2020 9:22:35 GMT
Liverpool had experienced the first wave of Liberal activism which had certainly weakened the Tories on the ground, but certainly it was 1983-87 where they experienced the notable plunge in votes which they have never recovered from. It's more that even the sort of people who might vote Conservative elsewhere just don't and the entire absence of any Conservative presence is a very low base to start from. The last active Tory local campaign was in Allerton and Hunts Cross ward in 2008 when it was still a LibDem ward, the Tories managed to get Labour into third but have never managed it since. I sometimes say jokingly that it's more socially acceptable to be an axe murderer than a Conservative in Liverpool - they are viewed as being "against" the city and its very ingrained now. What about Conservative-inclined voters who move to Liverpool? Do they jettison their previous voting habits because of the reasons you describe? I don't know if you have read any of Danny Dorling's interesting work on demographic change, but he suggests that we are tending to congregate in areas where there are more people like us. So, Conservative minded oeople may be less likely to be attracted to Liverpool and Labour minded people less to the smaller towns and new build type suburbs. There really doesn't appear to be any evidence that Conservative-minded people do move to Liverpool. Or if they do then they don't appear to continue to vote Conservative. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 13, 2020 9:23:01 GMT
I suppose that does happen to a degree (same with some Labour voters who move into strongly Tory areas)
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Post by heslingtonian on Jun 13, 2020 9:35:51 GMT
What about Conservative-inclined voters who move to Liverpool? Do they jettison their previous voting habits because of the reasons you describe? I don't know if you have read any of Danny Dorling's interesting work on demographic change, but he suggests that we are tending to congregate in areas where there are more people like us. So, Conservative minded oeople may be less likely to be attracted to Liverpool and Labour minded people less to the smaller towns and new build type suburbs. There really doesn't appear to be any evidence that Conservative-minded people do move to Liverpool. Or if they do then they don't appear to continue to vote Conservative. Thanks. It would be interesting to know whether it is more that Conservative-minded people simply don't move to the city or whether they change their political views after they move in. Also is this true of expat Scousers? Certainly it wasn't true of Cilla but she was hardly typical. Wasn't Ken Dodd a known Tory? Was he given a hard time for that in recent years? |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 13, 2020 10:05:04 GMT
I don't know if you have read any of Danny Dorling's interesting work on demographic change, but he suggests that we are tending to congregate in areas where there are more people like us. So, Conservative minded oeople may be less likely to be attracted to Liverpool and Labour minded people less to the smaller towns and new build type suburbs. There really doesn't appear to be any evidence that Conservative-minded people do move to Liverpool. Or if they do then they don't appear to continue to vote Conservative. Thanks. It would be interesting to know whether it is more that Conservative-minded people simply don't move to the city or whether they change their political views after they move in. Also is this true of expat Scousers? Certainly it wasn't true of Cilla but she was hardly typical. Wasn't Ken Dodd a known Tory? Was he given a hard time for that in recent years? Remember that many of those old timers were brought up in Liverpool when it was a Conservative city. The big change dud happen in the first 2 terms of the Thatcher government and then was cemented outside the city in 1997 when places like Crosby and Wirral South went Labour. Ken Dodd was always someone who had a very marmite reaction. When I was on the police authority one of my colleagues was LibDem councillor Lady Doreen Jones who I liked - I recall being at the annual police awards dinner and the entertainment turned out to be Ken Dodd. Both Doreen and myself looked at each other and whispered just how much we disliked him. Trouble is he always went on for hours, and hours. Thankfully we both had taxis booked in advance..... |
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 13, 2020 10:57:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2020 21:39:49 GMT
A former housemate of mine and I got into a conversation some time ago about the moment the brain just stops remembering every last detail of something as you transition from 20s to 30s. Our talk was about athletics. For so long in the 80s and 90s, every British runner, jumper, swimmer and general athletic medallist of repute seemed to be a household name. Snooker, too, had this ability to bring personalities through the TV and into the rapid recall part of the memory.
Rory Bremner made this point about impressions of the 80s and 90s era of MPs. You could know them, recognise them, identify them, and suddenly that all changed. Athletic names have dried up, snooker too. MPs also. What used to be an easy parlour game of naming ministers and political figures has grown harder and more difficult.
Now either we're all just getting older and our memories drier and flakier *or* household names aren't a thing anymore. A theme for a new thread in Off Topic perhaps.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 14, 2020 22:02:32 GMT
A former housemate of mine and I got into a conversation some time ago about the moment the brain just stops remembering every last detail of something as you transition from 20s to 30s. Our talk was about athletics. For so long in the 80s and 90s, every British runner, jumper, swimmer and general athletic medallist of repute seemed to be a household name. Snooker, too, had this ability to bring personalities through the TV and into the rapid recall part of the memory. Rory Bremner made this point about impressions of the 80s and 90s era of MPs. You could know them, recognise them, identify them, and suddenly that all changed. Athletic names have dried up, snooker too. MPs also. What used to be an easy parlour game of naming ministers and political figures has grown harder and more difficult. Now either we're all just getting older and our memories drier and flakier *or* household names aren't a thing anymore. A theme for a new thread in Off Topic perhaps. We're all just getting older. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2020 22:16:32 GMT
A former housemate of mine and I got into a conversation some time ago about the moment the brain just stops remembering every last detail of something as you transition from 20s to 30s. Our talk was about athletics. For so long in the 80s and 90s, every British runner, jumper, swimmer and general athletic medallist of repute seemed to be a household name. Snooker, too, had this ability to bring personalities through the TV and into the rapid recall part of the memory. Rory Bremner made this point about impressions of the 80s and 90s era of MPs. You could know them, recognise them, identify them, and suddenly that all changed. Athletic names have dried up, snooker too. MPs also. What used to be an easy parlour game of naming ministers and political figures has grown harder and more difficult. Now either we're all just getting older and our memories drier and flakier *or* household names aren't a thing anymore. A theme for a new thread in Off Topic perhaps. We're all just getting older. Fair. |
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Post by pragmaticidealist on Jun 15, 2020 7:51:31 GMT
We're all just getting older. Fair. I'd actually say that the latter also comes into effect. There are at least a couple of reasons for why, 30 years ago, there were seemingly more household names in the various things you mentioned. 1. There was only a handful of television channels and no social media. 2. There has, in both politics and sport particularly, been something of a transition away from 'being a character' and to more 'professionalism'. In 1985, Dennis Taylor and Steve Davis got 18.5 million viewers when it was past midnight. Can anyone imagine, say, Mark Selby and John Higgins getting even a fifth of that, even in a black ball decider? Spitting Image would also have greater difficulty in parodying Matt Hancock and Sir Keir Starmer than it did Tony Benn and Michael Heseltine. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 15, 2020 9:19:22 GMT
Yes, its hard to pin down precisely but I'm pretty sure its not *just* us all getting older.
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nodealbrexiteer
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jun 19, 2020 20:21:33 GMT
Another tweeting exercise for you? |
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Harry Hayfield
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Jun 20, 2020 7:34:51 GMT
Another tweeting exercise for you? Not this time, actually. I am having respite from care in Bury St. Edmunds constituency (Con HOLD in 1970) and therefore am giving this a miss (but am posting in the Dr. Who section of the Gallifrey Base forum about the general election (which is a RPG based on real events) and therefore have just posted that I have arrived at the count in Bury St. Edmunds as a guest of the Labour Party (having spent a very nice day telling with the son of a vicar for the Conservatives in the morning and the vicar himself in the afternoon). |
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Post by johnloony on Jun 20, 2020 10:31:41 GMT
A turnout of 155% in Bermondsey
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Post by richard5608 on Jun 23, 2020 15:58:29 GMT
when if ever. is bbc parliament going to replay election 1983 and 87. its the only elections i dont have the next day coverage.
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connor
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Post by connor on Oct 2, 2020 15:22:40 GMT
Was watching the 2015 election night broadcast and reminds me how exciting that election was and despite the result, was one of my favorites in my life time. The last two elections after that were more bitter and frustrating soon after.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 16, 2020 13:03:37 GMT
Feb '74 coming again on 30 October
And followed shortly after by Oct '74. But you don't have to wait eight months this time, as it's the following day:
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 16, 2020 13:16:42 GMT
Feb '74 coming again on 30 October And followed shortly after by Oct '74. But you don't have to wait eight months this time, as it's the following day: Great but Alastair Burnet repeatedly showing us his expensive watch and trying to tell Bob Mackenzie that coalition governments didn’t work in the numerous countries that had them 😕 |
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 17, 2020 8:32:58 GMT
Not sure this is entirely the place to put this, but the BBC are no longer maintaining their dedicated @bbcparliament Twitter account, directing users to the main @bbcnews feed instead.
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nodealbrexiteer
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Oct 17, 2020 8:36:41 GMT
Feb '74 coming again on 30 October And followed shortly after by Oct '74. But you don't have to wait eight months this time, as it's the following day: Great but Alastair Burnet repeatedly showing us his expensive watch and trying to tell Bob Mackenzie that coalition governments didn’t work in the numerous countries that had them 😕 A lot of people have said about his role in the BBC broadcasts that he wasn't up to the presenters before and after-maybe when he went back to ITN he picked up again |
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