Ask the Forum thread- psephology

[finsobruce]

Oct 8, 2023 9:52:43 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Deptford ward, Lewisham 1 July 1976

Adams (Lab) 968
Dixon ('National') 580
Edmonds (NF) 395
Elvin (C) 256

If you add together the NF and its splinter party they just overtook Labour.

I saw a couple of results like this when I was going through the 73/76/78 results, where the combined National and NF vote would have won the seat.

[johnloony]

Oct 8, 2023 9:52:43 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Deptford ward, Lewisham 1 July 1976

Adams (Lab) 968
Dixon ('National') 580
Edmonds (NF) 395
Elvin (C) 256

If you add together the NF and its splinter party they just overtook Labour.

Presumably your use of ‘quotes’ indicates that the word “National” was the description of the candidate on the ballot paper; is it certain that he was actually a candidate of the National Party of the United Kingdom? Or he could have just been a freelance nationalist or splitter using a vague label.

[johnloony]

Oct 8, 2023 11:50:28 GMT batman said:

It wasn't just that ward. There was a GLC by-election in the Deptford constituency where the combined NP & NF vote was more than the Labour vote at roughly the same time.

Not according to the 1981 and 1977 editions of this

data.london.gov.uk/elections/

[batman]

John, you appear to be correct. There is a widely-spread, or fairly widely-spread, myth that what I said happened, and it appears that it was a mere borough council by-election, not for the GLC. I therefore naturally withdraw my incorrect post

[batman]

With regard to the label National, I think it was the National Party, which was strong enough to elect two councillors in Blackburn (including its senior figure John Kingsley Read), but I could be wrong.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Oct 8, 2023 15:15:16 GMT batman said:

With regard to the label National, I think it was the National Party, which was strong enough to elect two councillors in Blackburn (including its senior figure John Kingsley Read), but I could be wrong.

Probably, but I was just going by what it says in the GLC Intelligence Unit publication.

[wysall]

Oct 8, 2023 7:34:27 GMT batman said:

Sept 30, 2023 14:42:47 GMT greenhert said:

How are Emma Whysall, who came close to becoming Labour's first MP for Chipping Barnet in 2017 and 2019, and John Whysall, who was a Labour councillor in Haringey in the 1970s and tried and failed to gain Upminster twice in 1974, related?

they may not be. Whysall isn't THAT uncommon a surname. I knew a Whysall who lived in St Margaret's and still know her son who uses Whysall as part of his name sometimes, and there was a Nottinghamshire opening bat called Whysall between the wars. 

From the village of Wysall (‘weoh-hoh’, which you can roughly translate as ‘hill shrine’), originally. I hasten to add that it is not my surname but rather a joke about a calque.

[batman]

The cricketer W.W.Whysall had an extremely freaky & unfortunate death, aged only in his early 40s, in 1930. He slipped on a dance floor, cut his elbow & septicaemia set in and took his life. That must have been an awful death, poor fellow.

[carlton43]

Oct 9, 2023 10:02:45 GMT wysall said:

Oct 8, 2023 7:34:27 GMT batman said:

they may not be. Whysall isn't THAT uncommon a surname. I knew a Whysall who lived in St Margaret's and still know her son who uses Whysall as part of his name sometimes, and there was a Nottinghamshire opening bat called Whysall between the wars. 

From the village of Wysall (‘weoh-hoh’, which you can roughly translate as ‘hill shrine’), originally. I hasten to add that it is not my surname but rather a joke about a calque.

Thank you for the introduction to 'calque'.

[The Bishop]

Oct 9, 2023 10:10:07 GMT batman said:

The cricketer W.W.Whysall had an extremely freaky & unfortunate death, aged only in his early 40s, in 1930. He slipped on a dance floor, cut his elbow & septicaemia set in and took his life. That must have been an awful death, poor fellow.

Reminiscent of the Greek monarch who was bitten by his pet monkey and subsequently died of blood poisoning.

[finsobruce]

Oct 9, 2023 11:35:49 GMT The Bishop said:

Oct 9, 2023 10:10:07 GMT batman said:

The cricketer W.W.Whysall had an extremely freaky & unfortunate death, aged only in his early 40s, in 1930. He slipped on a dance floor, cut his elbow & septicaemia set in and took his life. That must have been an awful death, poor fellow.

Reminiscent of the Greek monarch who was bitten by his pet monkey and subsequently died of blood poisoning.

Or Rupert Brooke who died of an infected mosquito bite on his way to Gallipoli in 1915. Although in his case avoiding the latter military action could be construed as a blessing in disguise.

His brother William was killed in action in the same year, after only nineteen days at the front.

[J.G.Harston]

I'm sure I've seen this discussed before, but I can't find it with the Search facility.

Are the requirements for standing for local councils requirements to stand for election, or to hold office? I know it's been to case law that being a councillor counts for the "working within the district" qualification to be a candidate, but they have to be held to to be a councillor, not just to stand for election?

Explicitly: if a person who qualifies to stand for election, gets elected, and then ceases to qualify to *stand* *for* *election*, do they also cease to qualify to *remain* *in* *office*?

[Davıd Boothroyd]

The nomination papers require a candidate to identify why they are qualified to stand for election, and to specify details (eg the address they have lived at, the property they own, the electoral register they appear on). Candidates must also declare they do not know any reason why they may be disqualified, and that they have read the list of potential disqualifications.

The interesting point comes if the details as supplied are deficient. If the candidate does not outline how they are qualified, or if the details plainly do not support the case (eg an address outside the council's area), then the Returning Officer would refuse to accept the nomination as the particulars supplied are not as required by law. However the Returning Officer is not able to do any investigation; for instance, if a candidate claims to be the freehold owner of land and there is reason to doubt it, the Returning Officer does not have the ability to check Land Registry records and then disqualify a candidate who had wrongly claimed ownership. Any mistaken or erroneous claim would have to be taken up after the election, either as a criminal investigation or on an election petition if the candidate was successful.

For three out of the four types of qualification, there is no requirement to maintain them throughout the term - it is enough to have been qualified on nomination. The exception to that is where a candidate is qualified only through being on the local electoral register: under s. 79(1)(a) of the Local Government Act 1972, a person is qualified to serve as a councillor if "on [nomination] day he is and thereafter he continues to be a local government elector for the area of the authority" (my emphasis). This means that councillors who only qualify through this route must remain on the electoral register and will be disqualified if they cease to be on it.

[Clark]

Did the USA ever have a BNP / NF type party?

[Defenestrated Fipplebox]

Oct 31, 2023 7:16:59 GMT Clark said:

Did the USA ever have a BNP / NF type party?

No need as one of the two main parties has always supported their position.

[Sibboleth]

Oct 31, 2023 7:16:59 GMT Clark said:

Did the USA ever have a BNP / NF type party?

The American Far-and-Extreme Right tradition is different to ours and, as noted in the post above this one, has usually found it expedient to work within the major parties (which, of course, have never been political parties in the European sense), and at times both of them at once. In terms of Presidential elections, Strom Thurmond ran as a 'States Rights' candidate on a virulently racist programme in 1948 and won four states, though as a purely sectional candidate he had little appeal outside the Deep South and polled less than 3% nationally. George Wallace ran as the candidate of the 'American Independent Party' in 1968 on, again, a virulently racist and pro-segregation ticket, but he also made an effort to appeal to a broader audience along more internationally familiar far right themes. He won five states and polled 13% nationally. He polled credible percentages outside the South, including as much as 12% in Ohio and Idaho and 13% in Nevada. In 1972 John Schmitz - a Bircher and a state legislator from California - ran for the same shell party as Wallace had four years earlier, but as an overtly extreme right (rather than merely far right) candidate: he only polled 1.4% nationally, but managed as much as 9% in Idaho.

[The Bishop]

There have also been actual explicitly neo-Nazi organisations (notably the American Nazi Party) but none have ever been more than fringe of the fringe.

[Clark]

Oct 31, 2023 11:13:12 GMT Sibboleth said:

Oct 31, 2023 7:16:59 GMT Clark said:

Did the USA ever have a BNP / NF type party?

The American Far-and-Extreme Right tradition is different to ours and, as noted in the post above this one, has usually found it expedient to work within the major parties (which, of course, have never been political parties in the European sense), and at times both of them at once. In terms of Presidential elections, Strom Thurmond ran as a 'States Rights' candidate on a virulently racist programme in 1948 and won four states, though as a purely sectional candidate he had little appeal outside the Deep South and polled less than 3% nationally. George Wallace ran as the candidate of the 'American Independent Party' in 1968 on, again, a virulently racist and pro-segregation ticket, but he also made an effort to appeal to a broader audience along more internationally familiar far right themes. He won five states and polled 13% nationally. He polled credible percentages outside the South, including as much as 12% in Ohio and Idaho and 13% in Nevada. In 1972 John Schmitz - a Bircher and a state legislator from California - ran for the same shell party as Wallace had four years earlier, but as an overtly extreme right (rather than merely far right) candidate: he only polled 1.4% nationally, but managed as much as 9% in Idaho.

Very interesting - many thanks for this input

[jamie]

Had anybody got a swing map of the 2017 to 2022 French presidential elections?

[Clark]

How close does an election need to be for the losing candidate to justify asking for a recount?

Speaking in terms of a parliamentary constituency - 200, 300 votes?