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Post by Merseymike on Nov 18, 2022 14:28:56 GMT
the SDLP is an official sister party of the Labour Party though, both members of the Socialist International. Not that you would have known it during the Corbyn years. It was easy to come to the conclusion that he found them an irrelevance, much preferring to talk to SF. An irrelevance is perhaps a little harsh, but not entirely so. It's why, despite the historical links, the Tories tend to focus more on the DUP than the UUP Sinn Fein are undoubtedly the dominant party if both the left and of nationalism. And of course they also operate in the south. The SDLP are an ageing party whose position has been usurped. The LibDems are perhaps in a more straightforward position in having it's links with Alliance who are a liberal party without any past baggage.
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Post by mattbewilson on Nov 18, 2022 15:07:08 GMT
The SDLP are largely irrelevant. They have found a foot hold back into politics but it's likely the centre left nationalist vote swinging behind SF in NI will keep SDLP on the fringes of politics for a while
Particularly the miscalculated union with FF won't enamour people to SDLP
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Post by aargauer on Nov 18, 2022 15:29:55 GMT
The SDLP are largely irrelevant. They have found a foot hold back into politics but it's likely the centre left nationalist vote swinging behind SF in NI will keep SDLP on the fringes of politics for a while Particularly the miscalculated union with FF won't enamour people to SDLP Not sure one can claim to be anything with the word "centre" in it voting for the political wing of the IRA.
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Post by mattbewilson on Nov 18, 2022 15:35:53 GMT
The SDLP are largely irrelevant. They have found a foot hold back into politics but it's likely the centre left nationalist vote swinging behind SF in NI will keep SDLP on the fringes of politics for a while Particularly the miscalculated union with FF won't enamour people to SDLP Not sure one can claim to be anything with the word "centre" in it voting for the political wing of the IRA. whether you think the sunshine's out of the backside of SF or you think they're blood soaked murdering bastards, fact is they don't sit on top of the pile in NI and in the republic without having expanded their voter base to include the centre. Particularly in the republic which has never had a centre left party as the senior party in government and in northern Ireland where catholic nationalism is dropping as a voter base
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Post by rcronald on Nov 18, 2022 15:36:11 GMT
It seems that you don't actually have to have a blue avatar to post in the forum's "blue room". Whereas the Labour sub-forum has a red name as a requirement to participate. The access requirements are so lax that even people who have actively chosen another party get in! Reform, Reclaim, Liberal (not lib dem) to name but 3. Its effectively a right of centre room. Most (or a large minority) of our active users in the blue room don't have a tory avatar at the moment 😅
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 18, 2022 16:04:01 GMT
Not sure one can claim to be anything with the word "centre" in it voting for the political wing of the IRA. whether you think the sunshine's out of the backside of SF or you think they're blood soaked murdering bastards, fact is they don't sit on top of the pile in NI and in the republic without having expanded their voter base to include the centre. Particularly in the republic which has never had a centre left party as the senior party in government and in northern Ireland where catholic nationalism is dropping as a voter base Very much so. In the south Irish Labour has almost disappeared and SF have picked up some traditional republican votes and many young people. In the north effectively people who would have voted SDLP now vote SF.
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Post by batman on Nov 18, 2022 16:18:04 GMT
Irish Labour keep going into coalitions with right-wing parties and wonder why people are reluctant to vote for them. Their record has been extremely poor for a long while, from a labourish point of view.
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Post by aargauer on Nov 18, 2022 16:31:46 GMT
Irish Labour keep going into coalitions with right-wing parties and wonder why people are reluctant to vote for them. Their record has been extremely poor for a long while, from a labourish point of view. Didnt one of their number move to NI and run as a unionist?
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Post by batman on Nov 18, 2022 16:49:24 GMT
Irish Labour keep going into coalitions with right-wing parties and wonder why people are reluctant to vote for them. Their record has been extremely poor for a long while, from a labourish point of view. Didnt one of their number move to NI and run as a unionist? Conor Cruise O'Brien certainly did, and not quite sure he was the only one either.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 18, 2022 18:49:03 GMT
It seems that you don't actually have to have a (medium) blue avatar to post in the forum's "blue room". Whereas the Labour sub-forum has a red name as a requirement to participate. What is your policy on The Inkatha Freedom Party?
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 18, 2022 19:00:02 GMT
The access requirements are so lax that even people who have actively chosen another party get in! Reform, Reclaim, Liberal (not lib dem) to name but 3. Its effectively a right of centre room. Most (or a large minority) of our active users in the blue room don't have a tory avatar at the moment 😅 Joking aside (and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a general right-of-centre room) I think that one of the problems with the Conservative Party over the last ten years has been that UKIP helped transform what had been a strand of (capital C) Conservatism into a separate ideological movement, (rather like the Bolshevik-Menshevik split) and the party has been struggling to accommodate it ever since. Some people claim that UKIP has taken it over, from my perspective it looks more as though there is an attempt to accommodate both sides which is continually leading to defections from both sides and occasional un-defections. I have to say I had both aargauer and Forfarshire Conservative down as fairly mainstream Conservatives and am surprised at both defections.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 18, 2022 19:02:12 GMT
Next we'll find out he's actually from Fife! that would be a scandal the likes of which has never been seen before on this forum! Zero tolerance for fifers unless they're achieved by England bowlers. Or Michelle.
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Post by rcronald on Nov 18, 2022 19:26:26 GMT
Most (or a large minority) of our active users in the blue room don't have a tory avatar at the moment 😅 Joking aside (and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a general right-of-centre room) I think that one of the problems with the Conservative Party over the last ten years has been that UKIP helped transform what had been a strand of (capital C) Conservatism into a separate ideological movement, (rather like the Bolshevik-Menshevik split) and the party has been struggling to accommodate it ever since. Some people claim that UKIP has taken it over, from my perspective it looks more as though there is an attempt to accommodate both sides which is continually leading to defections from both sides and occasional un-defections. I have to say I had both aargauer and Forfarshire Conservative down as fairly mainstream Conservatives and am surprised at both defections. I don't think non-tories can appreciate the excruciating pain party members have been enduring for more than a decade now, having our party hallowed out from an ideological perspective twice in order to amplify the another part of the ideology only to discover that the party lost all of its ideology in the long run (Cameron gave up on Social Conservatism, Johnson and company gave up on fiscal prudence and the party elite refuses to move in a genuinely culturally conservative direction), resulting in a mass revolt across the Tory spectrum, from moderate cosmopolitan voters like David to hardened conservative ideologues like Carlton. Note: Since my style of writing has never been very coherent (especially flow), I'll put it in a nutshell and say that the party tried to accommodate both wings but ended up dumping the ideology of both, resulting in a party that is not conservative in the economic sense nor is it conservative in the cultural sense.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Nov 18, 2022 19:37:10 GMT
Most (or a large minority) of our active users in the blue room don't have a tory avatar at the moment 😅 Joking aside (and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a general right-of-centre room) I think that one of the problems with the Conservative Party over the last ten years has been that UKIP helped transform what had been a strand of (capital C) Conservatism into a separate ideological movement, (rather like the Bolshevik-Menshevik split) and the party has been struggling to accommodate it ever since. Some people claim that UKIP has taken it over, from my perspective it looks more as though there is an attempt to accommodate both sides which is continually leading to defections from both sides and occasional un-defections. I have to say I had both aargauer and Forfarshire Conservative down as fairly mainstream Conservatives and am surprised at both defections. From elsewhere "I haven't left the party - yet, but I don't see what's attractive to believe in. As a moderateish conservative, the party doesn't seem to want my support. You have the likes of Roger Gale saying that we shouldn't appeal to those who want to control immigration, the party is determined to protect the wealth of pensioners at the expense of everyone else, a quarter of pensioners are technical millionaires by the way, we aren't increasing defence spending despite promises to do so, taxes are at their highest since Atlee and now we're sucking up to the CCP. Moreover, what is there here for me personally? The Conservative Party's policy is that once I graduate I should work for moderately low pay, that moderately low pay should be taxed heavily in order to fund pensioners' universal benefits, I should then pay half of what's left in rent to a landlord, there will be next to no prospect of me ever owning a home - the prices of which have increased from an average of £50,000 in 1990 to well over £200,000 today - because of NIMBYism and we can't even have conservative policies on immigration, crime and defending our history and heritage from self-declared communists. Also, the nation's infrastructure is falling apart and nobody seems to want to do anything about it. What's worth fighting for?" I should also point out that standards in public life is a concern. I was, and remain, aghast at the Owen Patterson saga. For me, that was blatantly corrupt, but it isn't only nefariousness either when I say "standards". Competence is another huge issue. There was Pinchergate, Liz Truss's whole government, from the budget to alleged manhandling and crying MP's in the voting lobbies and the hiring and swift firing of Williamson all over again.
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jamie
Top Poster
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Post by jamie on Nov 18, 2022 19:58:43 GMT
Irish Labour keep going into coalitions with right-wing parties and wonder why people are reluctant to vote for them. Their record has been extremely poor for a long while, from a labourish point of view. They're effectively the Irish Liberal Democrats (if they had that name would anybody notice anything different or out of place?).
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Nov 18, 2022 20:05:33 GMT
Joking aside (and I see no reason why there shouldn't be a general right-of-centre room) I think that one of the problems with the Conservative Party over the last ten years has been that UKIP helped transform what had been a strand of (capital C) Conservatism into a separate ideological movement, (rather like the Bolshevik-Menshevik split) and the party has been struggling to accommodate it ever since. Some people claim that UKIP has taken it over, from my perspective it looks more as though there is an attempt to accommodate both sides which is continually leading to defections from both sides and occasional un-defections. I have to say I had both aargauer and Forfarshire Conservative down as fairly mainstream Conservatives and am surprised at both defections. I don't think non-tories can appreciate the excruciating pain party members have been enduring for more than a decade now, having our party hallowed out from an ideological perspective twice in order to amplify the another part of the ideology only to discover that the party lost all of its ideology in the long run (Cameron gave up on Social Conservatism, Johnson and company gave up on fiscal prudence and the party elite refuses to move in a genuinely culturally conservative direction), resulting in a mass revolt across the Tory spectrum, from moderate cosmopolitan voters like David to hardened conservative ideologues like Carlton. Note: Since my style of writing has never been very coherent (especially flow), I'll put it in a nutshell and say that the party tried to accommodate both wings but ended up dumping the ideology of both, resulting in a party that is not conservative in the economic sense nor is it conservative in the cultural sense. I am fairly moderate on social issues, yes. I support trans rights, but not self-ID, I recognise there are issues with racism and think the party should be at ease with modern Britain. Even I have my limits though. I am aghast at the Channel migration crisis. Many of them are Albanian gangsters who are trying to game the, rightly, extensive system we have to identify modern slavery and protect its victims. There is a whole lobby designed to create totally open borders so anybody can come and the Conservatives should be going to war with them, but we're not. Meanwhile, alleged immigration hawk Home Secretary Braverman is just content to call the migrants silly names and that's it. How about flying every single one of them back to Albania as soon as they arrive, and if the mouthy Albanian PM, who coincidentally happens to be best mates with uber-Remainer Alastair Campbell, still has a problem with that impose tariffs to pay for the flights and the migrants' upkeep. I am glad she did a deal with Macron rather than call him names like Truss, but that doesn't even touch the sides. I also must admit that I am at a total loss to explain the lack of action against the environmental terrorism we've seen recently. Just Stop Oil and Insulate Britain are trying to hold the nation hostage, they're extremely misanthropic and have been attacking our cultural heritage, they've caused people physical harm, some irrevocably like that paralysed old lady. They cost the economy God knows how much by stopping people getting to work and I was horrified recently by the stories of people unable to get to cancer appointments, the articulated lorry crash they caused, the policeman they injured and of the man who missed his father's funeral and couldn't say goodbye to his dad for the last time. A Conservative government should be giving the police the legal cover they need to drag those malevolent idiots out of the road, physically if necessary, and putting them behind bars. Yet, all it's willing to do is carp from the sidelines. It's enough to drive any social moderate towards the social conservatives.
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Post by rcronald on Nov 18, 2022 20:17:02 GMT
I don't think non-tories can appreciate the excruciating pain party members have been enduring for more than a decade now, having our party hallowed out from an ideological perspective twice in order to amplify the another part of the ideology only to discover that the party lost all of its ideology in the long run (Cameron gave up on Social Conservatism, Johnson and company gave up on fiscal prudence and the party elite refuses to move in a genuinely culturally conservative direction), resulting in a mass revolt across the Tory spectrum, from moderate cosmopolitan voters like David to hardened conservative ideologues like Carlton. Note: Since my style of writing has never been very coherent (especially flow), I'll put it in a nutshell and say that the party tried to accommodate both wings but ended up dumping the ideology of both, resulting in a party that is not conservative in the economic sense nor is it conservative in the cultural sense. I am fairly moderate on social issues, yes. I support trans rights, but not self-ID, I recognise there are issues with racism and think the party should be at ease with modern Britain. Even I have my limits though. I am aghast at the Channel migration crisis. Many of them are Albanian gangsters who are trying to game the, rightly, extensive system we have to identify modern slavery and protect its victims. There is a whole lobby designed to create totally open borders so anybody can come and the Conservatives should be going to war with them, but we're not. Meanwhile, alleged immigration hawk Home Secretary Braverman is just content to call the migrants silly names and that's it. How about flying every single one of them back to Albania as soon as they arrive, and if the mouthy Albanian PM, who coincidentally happens to be best mates with uber-Remainer Alastair Campbell, still has a problem with that impose tariffs to pay for the flights and the migrants' upkeep. I am glad she did a deal with Macron rather than call him names like Truss, but that doesn't even touch the sides. I also must admit that I am at a total loss to explain the lack of action against the environmental terrorism we've seen recently. Just Stop Oil and Insulate Britain are trying to hold the nation hostage, they're extremely misanthropic and have been attacking our cultural heritage, they've caused people physical harm, some irrevocably like that paralysed old lady. They cost the economy God knows how much by stopping people getting to work and I was horrified recently by the stories of people unable to get to cancer appointments, the articulated lorry crash they caused, the policeman they injured and of the man who missed his father's funeral and couldn't say goodbye to his dad for the last time. A Conservative government should be giving the police the legal cover they need to drag those malevolent idiots out of the road, physically if necessary, and putting them behind bars. Yet, all it's willing to do is carp from the sidelines. It's enough to drive any social moderate towards the social conservatives. I mentioned you specifically to illustrate how far to the left the party has moved on social issues! I'm not that much of a social conservative myself (I am culturally conservative/nationalist though), as I supported SSM even before Cameron decided to push it down the membership’s throat and an active member of a party that decriminalized sex work (I'm a staunch supporter of the movement to legalize sex work and consumption myself) and possession/consumption of marijuana.
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Post by timrollpickering on Nov 18, 2022 20:17:29 GMT
I think I gave our resident SDLP member access to the red room too IIRC. the SDLP is an official sister party of the Labour Party though, both members of the Socialist International. Labour downgraded to observer status back in 2013 " in view of ethical concerns, and to develop international co-operation through new networks" and joined the new Progressive Alliance. Unless it was one of the lesser known achievements of the Corbyn years to return to SI and nobody noticed?
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Post by timrollpickering on Nov 18, 2022 20:22:40 GMT
You have the likes of Roger Gale saying that we shouldn't appeal to those who want to control immigration, Sir Roger Gale would know all about appealing to people. When I was an undergraduate at the University of Kent at Canterbury he came to speak to the Politics Society and the MP for the next door constituency drew the worst turnout ever with just three people in the audience.
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Post by batman on Nov 18, 2022 20:24:18 GMT
It seems that you don't actually have to have a (medium) blue avatar to post in the forum's "blue room". Whereas the Labour sub-forum has a red name as a requirement to participate. What is your policy on The Inkatha Freedom Party? that particular member is not a member of the red room & I would tend to doubt he would want to join. I would certainly not be in favour.......
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