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Post by stb12 on Jul 9, 2022 11:53:43 GMT
Clarke would have been a more competent leader, yes. But that doesn’t really matter if the majority of the party can’t put up with one of your defining political tenets. Portillo was the better candidate in that sense. He had some of the potential leadership qualities that Clarke had, but was Eurosceptic like IDS. Thanks for your insights on this, it goes back to a time when I was nine years old so barely could even name a politician I’ve read plenty of stuff about how Ken Clarke’s pro-Europe ideology could have split the party if he’d become leader but even now you hear that kind of thing all the time with Labour and the Tories so wasn’t sure how genuinely realistic that was
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Post by johnloony on Jul 9, 2022 12:39:40 GMT
I had a long-standing grudge against Ken Clarke for a long time, which made me hate him and think that he was not suitable to be leader. The reason was nothing to do do with his position on the EU-phile/skeptic axis.
It was because, as Home Secretary, he refused to send to the Court of Appeal the case of the four men who had been wrongly convicted of the murder of Carl Bridgewater, despite there already being overwhelming evidence that they were innocent.
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Post by devolutionist on Aug 7, 2022 22:37:12 GMT
I've defected from the Yorkshire Party to the Liberal Democrats, I'll make it "tag official" by messaging an Admin.
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Post by MeirionGwril on Aug 8, 2022 2:26:12 GMT
I've defected from the Yorkshire Party to the Liberal Democrats, I'll make it "tag official" by messaging an Admin. pity
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Aug 8, 2022 3:09:56 GMT
I've defected from the Yorkshire Party to the Liberal Democrats, I'll make it "tag official" by messaging an Admin. Any particular reason?
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Post by tonyhill on Aug 8, 2022 5:38:13 GMT
You are very welcome as far as I am concerned. Your posts on the Wakefield by-election were informative. Regional devolution has always been a Liberal policy, though not one that has been sufficiently to the fore in recent years.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 8, 2022 8:49:38 GMT
Makes a change from YP people defecting to the Tories, I suppose
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 8, 2022 11:03:40 GMT
Makes a change from YP people defecting to the Tories, I suppose The banter outcome would have been him defecting to the Green party
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Post by yellowperil on Aug 8, 2022 12:57:20 GMT
Makes a change from YP people defecting to the Tories, I suppose The banter outcome would have been him defecting to the Green party I'm hoping none of this refers to me.
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Post by devolutionist on Aug 8, 2022 17:53:40 GMT
I've defected from the Yorkshire Party to the Liberal Democrats, I'll make it "tag official" by messaging an Admin. Any particular reason? Can be nicely summarised as a simple belief that the best chance I have of seeing any meaningful electoral reform or decentralisation of power in my lifetime in England is if the Lib Dems can become a force in Westminster again (or at least hold the balance of power / position themselves as kingmakers). Sharing secondary reasons would be perceived by former peers/colleagues in the YP as sticking the boot in, or airing dirty laundry in public, and I've got too much respect for the people who built the party to what it is today to want to do that. What I will say though is that I think I've always gravitated towards the pragmatic centre, and that at this moment in time I think its the Lib Dems who occupy that territory.
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Post by devolutionist on Aug 8, 2022 17:59:20 GMT
Makes a change from YP people defecting to the Tories, I suppose The banter outcome would have been him defecting to the Green party The last YP member to defect to the Greens went back to the YP within about a month, due to the toxicity of their identity politics and their ongoing civil war. Think he effectively got told by some people that he's not entitled to an opinion because he's a boomer, the blokes a f*cking foodbank volunteer.
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Post by devolutionist on Aug 8, 2022 18:01:24 GMT
Makes a change from YP people defecting to the Tories, I suppose To be fair, if you are referring to the 2 x Selby councillors and the former Deputy Leader, I believe at least two of those were in the Tory party before joining the Yorkshire Party, and there was always an air of inevitability that one of those would end up re-joining.
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Post by aargauer on Aug 8, 2022 18:10:28 GMT
Can be nicely summarised as a simple belief that the best chance I have of seeing any meaningful electoral reform or decentralisation of power in my lifetime in England is if the Lib Dems can become a force in Westminster again (or at least hold the balance of power / position themselves as kingmakers). Sharing secondary reasons would be perceived by former peers/colleagues in the YP as sticking the boot in, or airing dirty laundry in public, and I've got too much respect for the people who built the party to what it is today to want to do that. What I will say though is that I think I've always gravitated towards the pragmatic centre, and that at this moment in time I think its the Lib Dems who occupy that territory. I sincerely hope so - this was always the best side of the Lib Dems - although they have been very quiet about this in recent years. Perhaps when brexit slowly loses saliency it'll come more to the fore.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 8, 2022 18:11:12 GMT
Can be nicely summarised as a simple belief that the best chance I have of seeing any meaningful electoral reform or decentralisation of power in my lifetime in England is if the Lib Dems can become a force in Westminster again (or at least hold the balance of power / position themselves as kingmakers). Sharing secondary reasons would be perceived by former peers/colleagues in the YP as sticking the boot in, or airing dirty laundry in public, and I've got too much respect for the people who built the party to what it is today to want to do that. What I will say though is that I think I've always gravitated towards the pragmatic centre, and that at this moment in time I think its the Lib Dems who occupy that territory. Welcome. Would be interested in hearing your views on localism and how best to proceed.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 8, 2022 18:12:15 GMT
Can be nicely summarised as a simple belief that the best chance I have of seeing any meaningful electoral reform or decentralisation of power in my lifetime in England is if the Lib Dems can become a force in Westminster again (or at least hold the balance of power / position themselves as kingmakers). Sharing secondary reasons would be perceived by former peers/colleagues in the YP as sticking the boot in, or airing dirty laundry in public, and I've got too much respect for the people who built the party to what it is today to want to do that. What I will say though is that I think I've always gravitated towards the pragmatic centre, and that at this moment in time I think its the Lib Dems who occupy that territory. I sincerely hope so - this was always the best side of the Lib Dems - although they have been very quiet about this in recent years. Perhaps when brexit slowly loses saliency it'll come more to the fore. Too quiet, for sure.
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Post by greenchristian on Aug 8, 2022 18:58:50 GMT
The banter outcome would have been him defecting to the Green party The last YP member to defect to the Greens went back to the YP within about a month, due to the toxicity of their identity politics and their ongoing civil war. Think he effectively got told by some people that he's not entitled to an opinion because he's a boomer, the blokes a f*cking foodbank volunteer. For the record, that stuff is irrelevant in the vast majority of our local and regional parties. There are a few places where the zealots on one side or the other are particularly vocal and active, but most of the bickering is confined to the national party - which is fairly remote from what's going on in active local parties.
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Post by BossMan on Aug 8, 2022 19:02:33 GMT
I've defected from the Yorkshire Party to the Liberal Democrats, I'll make it "tag official" by messaging an Admin. I've only just noticed this. Just give me the word and orange(ish) will be your nameplate.
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Post by stb12 on Aug 8, 2022 21:50:51 GMT
Pragmatism but not wanting to be in the big two seems to be the the reason quite a lot of people end up joining the Lib Dems
Hence most of the Change/Independent lot ending up defecting there in the end
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Post by mattbewilson on Aug 9, 2022 13:48:17 GMT
the Lib Dems were the NOTA party for a long time. If you like to think of yourself as not Labour and not Tory then the Lib Dems were quite attractive. That took a hit for obvious reasons but Brexit seems to have revived the brand some what.
Though the demographic is different. If you were working class, never vote Tory but wanted to protest against the labour government then Lib Dems were the obvious choice. Whereas today people who were traditional swing voters have been alienated by brexit Boris and the complete lack of appetite to talk about brexit from the labour party.
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pl
Non-Aligned
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Post by pl on Aug 9, 2022 14:00:21 GMT
the Lib Dems were the NOTA party for a long time. If you like to think of yourself as not Labour and not Tory then the Lib Dems were quite attractive. That took a hit for obvious reasons but Brexit seems to have revived the brand some what. Though the demographic is different. If you were working class, never vote Tory but wanted to protest against the labour government then Lib Dems were the obvious choice. Whereas today people who were traditional swing voters have been alienated by brexit Boris and the complete lack of appetite to talk about brexit from the labour party. Which explains the historic flow of the vote charts which always showed flows going LD <--> UKIP, and how we've seen even on this board people going UKIP --> Green. It always gives me some rye amusement to see a very historic piece of canvas data showing a BNP voters now voting Green!
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