|
|
Post by John Chanin on Jul 5, 2016 10:29:35 GMT
Staffordshire. I don't need to go into details as others have, but I'm in the Stoke South & Stone, and Stoke N & Kidsgrove (ie no change) camp. You don't need to do anything much except abolish Stone, and move bits of it as appropriate into Newcastle, Moorlands, Stafford, and join the town itself with Stoke. Haywood & Hixon has to top up Lichfield (as per zombie review).
|
|
|
|
Post by John Chanin on Jul 5, 2016 10:35:16 GMT
Hereford, Worcester & Shropshire.
There isn't in my view any argument to be had about the basic pattern here, although individual wards can be argued about. Leominster joins with south Shropshire. Ledbury joins with Malvern. There's an Evesham seat. Redditch joins with Wythall and the Birmingham commuter villages, Bromsgrove joins with Droitwich. Wyre Forest and Worcester are largely unchanged.
|
|
Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742 
|
Post by Adrian on Jul 5, 2016 15:27:30 GMT
Thanks John. If you're not using Plan Builder, I salute your ability with the mental ward-juggling. I fondly remember the pre-Plan Builder days, even though it took me 3 times as long and I couldn't see what the wards were actually like! I've just posted my WM county plans ukelect.wordpress.com/tag/west-midlands/ |
|
|
|
Post by greenchristian on Jul 5, 2016 16:36:24 GMT
Coventry, Warwickshire & Solihull. I have read with interest some of the proposals here. I concluded that it was impossible to make sensible seats without crossing the Solihull border. However I really don't want to split Solihull proper. You can split a ward in Coventry, but you don't have to. You really don't want to split Bedworth, Nuneaton, Rugby, Kenilworth or Warwick/Leamington.
My suggestion is to add Meriden ward to North Warwickshire. North warwickshire loses Exhall ward to Coventry NW. Nuneaton then extends to take in the northern rural wards of Rugby District (just fits), and Rugby extends south into Southam. Unfortunately my Coventry South seat I can't get the whole of Kenilworth into, however I jiggle the Coventry wards, so Park Hill (and Stoneleigh) have to go into Warwick/Leamington unless you split a ward. The Warwick and Stratford seats are kept below maximum size by moving the Arden wards into Meriden, which now needs a new name (Arden looks like a good short one). Solihull is unchanged.
(Since I'm neither using Boundary Assistant, nor do I have a dropbox I can't post maps) So you don't think that either of the Coventry and Warwickshire plans posted here are sensible? To recap, there were two main approaches: Mine went as follows: North Warwickshire gains the North Warwickshire county wards currently in Nuneaton constituency Nuneaton gains some rural Rugby wards Rugby extends to Southam Coventry South loses Binley & Willenhall to (North) East, St Michael's to North West, gains Woodlands from North West, and gains all three Kenilworth wards Coventry (North) East loses Foleshill to North West The rest of South Warwickshire is split between Warwick and Leamington and Stratford. There was also the plan that started with adding Coleshill wards into Coventry North West, and ended up only taking a couple of wards off the edges of Nuneaton and Rugby when adjusting the Warwickshire constituencies. |
|
islington
Non-Aligned
Posts: 4,432
Member is Online
|
Post by islington on Jul 7, 2016 9:16:15 GMT
Or, of course, the third option is to treat Coventry with the rest of the urban West Mids and reinforce Warwickshire with Tamworth from Staffs for 6 seats.
However, I recognize that this is a minority view on the forum, although I'd like (belatedly) to thank Foggy for his generous words in support of it; also to express the hope that he was happy with my proposals for Humberside (mostly lifted from Pete Whitehead, tbh).
Looking at John Chanin's proposals, I'd have three main reservations.
(a) It's a lot of ward splits in Brum (4). But it seems to me that the more splits you have, the greater the improvement you need to show in order to justify them. Given that we have workable options with no splits at all, or with only one split, is it really possible to make a case for four?
(b) John has treated the Birmingham boundary as inviolable, but I have to say that other LA boundaries don't seem to have been accorded the same respect. Just a few examples - the Stoke boundary is crossed twice (in other plans only once); the boundary between Warwks and the W Mids is crossed thrice (in most other plans, only once, and in mine, not crossed at all); the Bromsgrove seat is needlessly disrupted despite the fact that it is within range and coterminous with its LA. Now, I agree with John that the Birmingham city boundary is entitled to a high degree of respect, but only in the sense that all LA boundaries (including ward boundaries) are entitled to respect. I don't think the Birmingham city boundary has a unique priority over other boundaries (including B'ham's own wards), which is what I feel John has given it. (And on the subject of wards, the new Birmingham wards are definitely irrelevant to the present exercise which, by law, is carried out with reference to local government boundaries as they existed in 2015.)
(c) While I commend John's ingenuity in getting 11 whole seats into the Black Country, I must express reservations about, e.g., a W Brom seat that extends north to Pheasey and Streetly from Walsall; and the Bilston/Darlaston seat that penetrates virtually to the centre of Wolverhampton; as well as the Dudley S seat that John mentions. As plans upthread demonstrate (not only mine), you can get much better boundaries in this part of the world if you 'borrow' a ward from Birmingham such as Quinton or Oscott (the latter is better in my view because it allows much better seats in Walsall and Wolverhampton and it also allows a five-ward seat in north Brum, reducing or eliminating altogether the need for ward splits elsewhere in the city). Again, it's a question of balancing what works best for Birmingham with what works best in the rest of the W Mids.
|
|
Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,144
|
Post by Foggy on Jul 8, 2016 1:17:07 GMT
However, I recognize that this is a minority view on the forum, although I'd like (belatedly) to thank Foggy for his generous words in support of it; also to express the hope that he was happy with my proposals for Humberside (mostly lifted from Pete Whitehead, tbh). You're most welcome. This isn't the right thread for it, but... I have little choice but to accept anyone's workable plan for Yorkshire and the Humber, since my own attempts at that region always came unstuck in the Hull area, and could probably have been resolved only by doing something perverse way over in the Leeds/Wakefield sub-region. (Obviously Sheffield technically doesn't fit neatly in Plan Builder, but I think there's consensus emerging that a single ward split there makes things acceptable.) |
|
|
|
Post by iainbhx on Jul 15, 2016 7:32:27 GMT
Is no one impressed that I managed the WEST MIDLANDS without ANY ward splits? Because I personally think that, although a few seats are ghastly, horrid and pure pitchfork bait, it is still an achievement I managed something very similar in about 6 hours, but I have a lot of knowledge of the area, so I'm impressed. The amount of pitchfork bait, particularly around Birmingham is however hilarious. That "Yardley"... |
|
islington
Non-Aligned
Posts: 4,432
Member is Online
|
Post by islington on Jul 15, 2016 8:06:50 GMT
The Yardley seat is very good, I agree, but it's the Ladywood that I especially admire.
But in all seriousness: I spent a lot of time trying to find a non-split way of getting 20 seats into Brum + Black Country; or, failing that, 22 into Brum + Black Country + Solihull. I finally concluded it was an impossibility, so I'm beyond impressed at ASV's achievement.
The fact that some of the seats are horrible means that his map can't be recommended (and I don't think he's seriously advocating it). But as a solution to the puzzle I can only applaud it.
|
|
Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Adrian on Jul 15, 2016 8:23:58 GMT
When he said 9 hours I said pah! and 15 minutes later I had a no-split plan until I got to Dudley...  |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 19, 2016 1:11:30 GMT
I give you... West Midlands without Coventry (Birmingham, Dudley, Sandwell, Solihull, Walsall & Wolverhampton) WITHOUT ANY WARD SPLITS!!!!! Meriden 77342 Solihull 74877 Birmingham Hodge Hill 71261 Birmingham Yardley 73108 Birmingham Springfield 71357 Birmingham Sparkbrook 72783 Birmingham Edgbaston 76801 Birmingham Northfield 71729 Birmingham Ladywood 75875 Birmingham Erdington 77920 Sutton Coldfield 73172 West Bromwich 72858 Smethwick 76859 Halesowen & Rowley Regis 78479 Stourbridge 78320 Dudley South 77748 Dudley North 77914 Wolverhampton West 75031 Wolverhampton East 77161 Walsall West 74015 Walsall North 73930 Walsall East 74198  |
|
Dalek
Conservative
Aldershot and Glasgow Kelvingrove
Posts: 110
|
Post by Dalek on Jul 19, 2016 12:55:14 GMT
Herefordshire, Shropshire, Worcestershire and Warwickshire can't stand alone. It's obvious to group the first three in that list for 12 seats, and I fancy the idea of pairing Coventry and Warwickshire for 8. That would give 2 for Solihull, 9 for Birmingham, 11 for the Black Country and 11 for Staffordshire. The Zombie review did to Edgbaston what had been done to Hall Green in 2010.
Most of the constituency became Birmingham Harbourne just as most of the old Hall Green joined the parts of Selly Oak not annexed by Northfield.
The new Hall Green was essentially the old Sparkbrook & Small Heath and the Zombie Edgbaston was more like the old Ladywood.
|
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 12:05:35 GMT
I give you... West Midlands without Coventry (Birmingham, Dudley, Sandwell, Solihull, Walsall & Wolverhampton) WITHOUT ANY WARD SPLITS!!!!! Meriden 77342 Solihull 74877 Birmingham Hodge Hill 71261 Birmingham Yardley 73108 Birmingham Springfield 71357 Birmingham Sparkbrook 72783 Birmingham Edgbaston 76801 Birmingham Northfield 71729 Birmingham Ladywood 75875 Birmingham Erdington 77920 Sutton Coldfield 73172 West Bromwich 72858 Smethwick 76859 Halesowen & Rowley Regis 78479 Stourbridge 78320 Dudley South 77748 Dudley North 77914 Wolverhampton West 75031 Wolverhampton East 77161 Walsall West 74015 Walsall North 73930 Walsall East 74198 Has anyone other than islington noticed this? |
|
|
|
Post by iainbhx on Jul 25, 2016 13:43:57 GMT
I give you... West Midlands without Coventry (Birmingham, Dudley, Sandwell, Solihull, Walsall & Wolverhampton) WITHOUT ANY WARD SPLITS!!!!! Meriden 77342 Solihull 74877 Birmingham Hodge Hill 71261 Birmingham Yardley 73108 Birmingham Springfield 71357 Birmingham Sparkbrook 72783 Birmingham Edgbaston 76801 Birmingham Northfield 71729 Birmingham Ladywood 75875 Birmingham Erdington 77920 Sutton Coldfield 73172 West Bromwich 72858 Smethwick 76859 Halesowen & Rowley Regis 78479 Stourbridge 78320 Dudley South 77748 Dudley North 77914 Wolverhampton West 75031 Wolverhampton East 77161 Walsall West 74015 Walsall North 73930 Walsall East 74198 West MidlandsHas anyone other than islington noticed this? Yes, next time I visit Sydney, I'm bringing the pitchfork. It's an achievement to do it without splits but the constituencies are, umm, horrible. |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Aug 1, 2016 10:52:35 GMT
..."Black Country Central" seat linking Bilston, Darlaston, Tipton, and Coseley......)
Could you show me this seat? |
|
|
|
Post by John Chanin on Aug 1, 2016 12:55:40 GMT
It was something I came up with on the zombie review as I said, in frustration with trying to get the Black Country to work. The numbers would still add up, but there are better solutions this time. It consisted of:
Wolverhampton: Bilston East, Bilston North
Walsall: Darlaston South, Darlaston N & Bentley
Sandwell: Princes End, Tipton Green, Great Bridge
Dudley: Coseley East
2015 Electorate: 73,476
2010 Electorate: 73,775
It isn't pitchfork material, as it makes perfect sense in community terms to link these 4 towns, but of course the Boundary Commission would never consider such a seat stretching across 4 different local authorities.
|
|
Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
|
Post by Richard Allen on Aug 1, 2016 13:01:13 GMT
One of my fantasy cross local authority seats during the zombie review was a Great Barr seat covering the relevant wards from Birmingham, Sandwell and Walsall. Unfortunately it wouldn't work with surrounding seats.
|
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Aug 2, 2016 1:20:54 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Aug 2, 2016 1:23:52 GMT
Traditional Worcestershire & Herefordshire Hereford 71924 Leominster 71539 Malvern 71935 Worcester 73324 Evesham 72709 Kidderminster & Droitwich 75053 Redditch 77544 Bromsgrove & Halesowen 76336 Stourbridge 73759  |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Aug 2, 2016 1:26:01 GMT
Shropshire Traditional Oswestry 77768 Shrewsbury 77830 Ludlow 76510 Telford 75151 Wrekin 74563  |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Aug 2, 2016 1:28:25 GMT
Warwickshire Traditional Stratford-upon-Avon 77960 Warwick & Leamington 77994 Rugby 77151 Nuneaton 76768 Bedworth 71127 Coventry East 73304 Coventry North 77745 Coventry South 77275 Meriden 71582 Solihull 75121 Birmingham Yardley 78466 Birmingham Hall Green 74548 Birmingham Moseley 72129 Birmingham Northfield 74447 Birmingham Edgbaston 76801 Birmingham Hodge Hill 73257 Birmingham Handsworth 75875 Birmingham Erdington 77920 Sutton Coldfield 73172  |
|
