Adrian
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Post by Adrian on Oct 18, 2017 19:19:31 GMT
The Commission say my proposals lacked detail, and they're right. But at least I added to the weight of proposals in favour of splitting wards in Sheffield. It's just a shame that they still couldn't bring themselves to do a decent job of Bradford, or avoid the Penistone orphan.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Oct 18, 2017 21:43:16 GMT
Reply moved to this thread... As was mine in West Sheffield! Just need to swap Nether Edge & Beauchief to polish it off. Pretty sure the numbers don’t work for that, unless you make some other changes too. Yes, I haven't had a chance to look at the numbers yet, but from memory the Conservative proposal did that and I commented that the Labour proposal in the north glued to the Conservative proposal for the south would be a good fit. I'm busy going the the Scarborough ward review proposals at the same time at the moment.  I've checked the numbers, and it would work, resulting in the numbers being almost the same, in fact, marginally improved: Quota 74,769
Revised Proposals Swap Nether Edge & Beauchief
Hallam 74,117 -0.87% 73,994 -1.04%
Heeley 71,193 -4.78% 71,316 -4.62%
Nether Edge 13,377
Beauchief 13,500 |
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iain
Lib Dem
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Post by iain on Oct 18, 2017 21:45:08 GMT
Reply moved to this thread... Yes, I haven't had a chance to look at the numbers yet, but from memory the Conservative proposal did that and I commented that the Labour proposal in the north glued to the Conservative proposal for the south would be a good fit. I'm busy going the the Scarborough ward review proposals at the same time at the moment. I've checked the numbers, and it would work, resulting in the numbers being almost the same, in fact, marginally improved: Quota   74,769
      Revised Proposals    Swap Nether Edge & Beauchief
Hallam  74,117 -0.87%       73,994 -1.04%
Heeley  71,193 -4.78%       71,316 -4.62%
Nether Edge 13,377
Beauchief  13,500 But it’s not just Nether Edge, it’s Nether Edge and part of Central. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Oct 18, 2017 21:57:15 GMT
Reply moved to this thread... I've checked the numbers, and it would work, resulting in the numbers being almost the same, in fact, marginally improved: Quota 74,769
Revised Proposals Swap Nether Edge & Beauchief
Hallam 74,117 -0.87% 73,994 -1.04%
Heeley 71,193 -4.78% 71,316 -4.62%
Nether Edge 13,377
Beauchief 13,500 But it’s not just Nether Edge, it’s Nether Edge and part of Central. No, it's the Nether Edge by the Boundary Commission definition, with the numbers lifted directly from the Boundary Commission document. The BCE say Hallam=blah+blab+blah+Beauchief(13500), Heeley=blah+blah+blah+NetherEdge(13377). Swap those two numbers. |
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iain
Lib Dem
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Post by iain on Oct 18, 2017 22:10:37 GMT
But it’s not just Nether Edge, it’s Nether Edge and part of Central. No, it's the Nether Edge by the Boundary Commission definition, with the numbers lifted directly from the Boundary Commission document. The BCE say Hallam=blah+blab+blah+Beauchief(13500), Heeley=blah+blah+blah+NetherEdge(13377). Swap those two numbers. Yes but then Heeley will have an enclave in Central ward. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Oct 19, 2017 0:10:22 GMT
No, it's the Nether Edge by the Boundary Commission definition, with the numbers lifted directly from the Boundary Commission document. The BCE say Hallam=blah+blab+blah+Beauchief(13500), Heeley=blah+blah+blah+NetherEdge(13377). Swap those two numbers. Yes but then Heeley will have an enclave in Central ward. Ah, I see what you mean. Not an enclave, but a polyp:  A polypectomy may be possible, but it's too late at night for me to think of one. I'll watch the comments to see what other people say. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Oct 19, 2017 5:28:18 GMT
The obvious thing to do would be to move the polyp (Sharrow) back to Central, and transfer part of Manor Castle to Heeley to make up for it. I remember considering this before, but I don't think I ever worked out the details. I suspect it's unlikely that they'd consider splitting a different ward now, but you never know.
Even if you accept Beauchief in Hallam (and actually I think it's less out of place than Stannington) Manor Castle feels out of place in that Central, and I think it would have been better if Labour had proposed moving it to Heeley instead of Nether Edge, which would presumably entail a different split of the old Central ward. Central would then need a new name...
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YL
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Post by YL on Oct 19, 2017 17:44:19 GMT
The obvious thing to do would be to move the polyp (Sharrow) back to Central, and transfer part of Manor Castle to Heeley to make up for it. I remember considering this before, but I don't think I ever worked out the details. I suspect it's unlikely that they'd consider splitting a different ward now, but you never know. Details: Sheffield Central (72,433) Hillsborough Walkley Crookes (part: HA, HC, HD, HG, covering Crookes proper) Broomhill Central Manor Castle (part: RD, RE, RF, RG, covering Wybourn and Park Hill) Sheffield Heeley (71,469) Beauchief & Greenhill Graves Park Gleadless Valley Arbourthorne Richmond Manor Castle (part: RA, RB, RC, covering most of the Manor Estate) The split of Manor Castle is pretty clean on the map, through City Road cemetery and down Manor Lane. For this one, it'd be helpful to have the electorates of the polling districts of the old Central broken down by which new ward they're in, as the Commission have (perfectly reasonably) decided to follow the new ward boundaries when splitting it. But, using the old polling districts, you can have: Sheffield Heeley (71,440) Graves Park Gleadless Valley Arbourthorne Manor Castle Richmond Central (part: GA, GB, GC, GD, GG, roughly the new City ward) Sheffield Broomhill (72,339) Hillsborough Walkley Crookes (part: HA, HC, HD, HG, covering Crookes proper) Broomhill Nether Edge Central (part: GE, GF, GH, GI, covering Sharrow and Broomhall) (Nice seat for the pre-Coalition Lib Dems there...) |
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 22, 2017 14:58:06 GMT
Someone really should explain to the Commission where the River Dearne is. They actually ask to be told in the report. (paraphrase) "Some guy wrote in to point out 'Wentworth & Dearne' is a mighty sillly name because [reasons]. He suggested Wath & Hoyland. His argument looks sound but then again it was only one guy, so let us know what you think." |
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YL
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Post by YL on Oct 23, 2017 11:25:46 GMT
Someone really should explain to the Commission where the River Dearne is. They actually ask to be told in the report. (paraphrase) "Some guy wrote in to point out 'Wentworth & Dearne' is a mighty sillly name because [reasons]. He suggested Wath & Hoyland. His argument looks sound but then again it was only one guy, so let us know what you think." Yes, I noticed that, and will accept the invitation. On another note, I'd be quite interested to know what people in the Bradford area (and those who know it well) think of the map there, not that I expect to say much about it in my submission. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Oct 28, 2017 17:40:14 GMT
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 28, 2017 18:28:56 GMT
It's possible to simply swap Idle and Bingley Rural which would be a big improvement in itself while further improvements could be made to the two Bradford seats by rotating them a bit so they become more of an East/West arrangement. The Pudsey seat is still awful of course and (along with the loss of Morley & OUtwood) make Alex Sobel's comments look pretty silly |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 28, 2017 19:39:18 GMT
Looking at it a bit more, I'd say idle would be a better fit with Pudsey than Bradford Moor so i'd suggest the following changes.
Shipley loses Idle and gains Bingley Rural (77,910)
Pudsey takes Idle and Horsforth instead of Bradford Moor and Armley (78,030)
Leeds NW takes Armley instead of Horsforth (76,018)
Bradford East comprises Bolton & Undecliffe, Eccleshall, Bradford moor, Bowling, LIttle Horton, Wibsey , Royds (74,394)
Bradford West comprises Great Horton, City, Manningham, Toller, Heaton, Thornotn, Clayton (72,007)
Various other options are available in Bradford
If you go for @benjl's plans in Calderdale as well then West Yorks would look pretty good
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YL
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Post by YL on Oct 28, 2017 20:18:47 GMT
It's possible to simply swap Idle and Bingley Rural which would be a big improvement in itself while further improvements could be made to the two Bradford seats by rotating them a bit so they become more of an East/West arrangement. The Pudsey seat is still awful of course and (along with the loss of Morley & OUtwood) make Alex Sobel's comments look pretty silly The thing about the proposed Pudsey (which I would regard as a new seat, with the existing Pudsey and Leeds West both effectively being abolished) is that within Leeds their proposals went down fairly well for the most part and so they have decided to stick with them and not consider splitting wards there, never mind that not doing so causes problems in Bradford. From the report it appears that the Assistant Commissioners visited the east Bradford wards along the Leeds border and decided that while there wasn't really a good choice of a single ward to put in the Pudsey seat Bradford Moor was the least bad choice. I think that's a reasonable conclusion, but it's still not a very satisfactory constituency. There are actually quite a lot of options for the area covered by their Bradford South, Bradford North and Shipley. Again, from reading the report it looked like they decided that Idle & Thackley (isn't that Crimson King's ward?) would fit better in the Shipley seat, but it wouldn't surprise me to see further changes in that area. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 28, 2017 20:37:12 GMT
Yeah I can't see much wrong with the Leeds seats apart from Pudsey/Leeds West and actually there's nothing wrong with putting Guiseley in the Shipley seat - it has better lnks to Baildon and Shipley itself than the communities in Wharfedale ward do and they have better links to Ilkley so that's all good. The inexplicable thing is putting Bingley Rural in one of the Bradford seats instead of Shipley when the numbers don;t require it and as I say that can easily enough be resolved.
I'd be interested to hear the view from Cullingworth
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 28, 2017 21:04:59 GMT
It's possible to simply swap Idle and Bingley Rural which would be a big improvement in itself while further improvements could be made to the two Bradford seats by rotating them a bit so they become more of an East/West arrangement. The Pudsey seat is still awful of course and (along with the loss of Morley & OUtwood) make Alex Sobel's comments look pretty silly The thing about the proposed Pudsey (which I would regard as a new seat, with the existing Pudsey and Leeds West both effectively being abolished) is that within Leeds their proposals went down fairly well for the most part and so they have decided to stick with them and not consider splitting wards there, never mind that not doing so causes problems in Bradford. From the report it appears that the Assistant Commissioners visited the east Bradford wards along the Leeds border and decided that while there wasn't really a good choice of a single ward to put in the Pudsey seat Bradford Moor was the least bad choice. I think that's a reasonable conclusion, but it's still not a very satisfactory constituency. There are actually quite a lot of options for the area covered by their Bradford South, Bradford North and Shipley. Again, from reading the report it looked like they decided that Idle & Thackley (isn't that Crimson King's ward?) would fit better in the Shipley seat, but it wouldn't surprise me to see further changes in that area. yup |
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 28, 2017 21:06:57 GMT
Yeah I can't see much wrong with the Leeds seats apart from Pudsey/Leeds West and actually there's nothing wrong with putting Guiseley in the Shipley seat - it has better lnks to Baildon and Shipley itself than the communities in Wharfedale ward do and they have better links to Ilkley so that's all good. The inexplicable thing is putting Bingley Rural in one of the Bradford seats instead of Shipley when the numbers don;t require it and as I say that can easily enough be resolved. I'd be interested to hear the view from Cullingworth I regularly run from Baildon/Shipley up to Guisley and back, so I guess that is fair |
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 3, 2017 19:55:38 GMT
I've submitted the two options for Sheffield above, together with a bit of a rant about the name "Lower Calder" (everything islington complains about in river names and worse) and some others. I didn't say much about Bradford. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Sept 10, 2018 11:57:57 GMT
I think the only changes to the boundaries are that Bingley Rural stays in Shipley and that Idle & Thackley goes into Bradford North.
Names: "Lower Calder" and "Upper Calder" have gone (good riddance), replaced by "South Calderdale & Queensbury" and "Halifax & North Calderdale"; Colne Valley becomes "Colne Valley & Penistone"; Featherstone (Hemsworth without Hemsworth) becomes "Wakefield Rural" (yuk); Wentworth & Dearne becomes "Wentworth & Hoyland"; Howden gets a mention as well as Goole and Axholme.
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Post by greatkingrat on Sept 10, 2018 12:51:43 GMT
And don't forget that Great Grimsby South and Cleethorpes is renamed to Cleethorpes and Great Grimsby South!
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