YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Dec 6, 2016 22:17:52 GMT
Re Calderdale...Cllr Holden may have muddled Skircoat and Northowram. A possible Tory proposal - Queensbury, Northowram, Lightcliffe, Brighouse, Rastrick, Elland, Greetland, Ryburn and Sowerby Bridge. A plum seat for Craig Whittaker. The remainder - six Halifax wards and the three Upper Valley wards - would definitely lean to Labour. Hullenedge - You can keep Royds in the Brighouse seat rather than Queensbury if you want to avoid disrupting the BCE's OK-ish scheme for Bradford. It's not a bad plan. I think Queensbury is more independent of Bradford than the other Bradford South wards, so it actually makes sense to include it rather than Royds in a Calderdale seat. As I said before, you can then tweak the BCE's proposal to put Wyke and Royds in with Spen (but mention Bradford in the name) and simply add Great Horton and Wibsey to the existing Bradford West and East respectively. I think that's a definite improvement, but Tong would still be stuck in a Leeds seat, which I think is less than ideal. |
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Post by islington on Dec 7, 2016 9:03:05 GMT
Hullenedge - You can keep Royds in the Brighouse seat rather than Queensbury if you want to avoid disrupting the BCE's OK-ish scheme for Bradford. It's not a bad plan. I think Queensbury is more independent of Bradford than the other Bradford South wards, so it actually makes sense to include it rather than Royds in a Calderdale seat. As I said before, you can then tweak the BCE's proposal to put Wyke and Royds in with Spen (but mention Bradford in the name) and simply add Great Horton and Wibsey to the existing Bradford West and East respectively. I think that's a definite improvement, but Tong would still be stuck in a Leeds seat, which I think is less than ideal. My submission proposes that the Halifax seat, compared with the BCE version, should lose Elland/Rastrick/Brighouse and gain Skircoat and Illingworth. I feel this is a big improvement in that the seat will then contain almost all the town of Halifax, which the BCE version certainly doesn't. The seat needs a Bradford ward, but the numbers work fine if you substitute Queensbury for Royds. I was trying to minimize disruption to the BCE scheme; but I'm happy to defer to local knowledge on this.
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,870 
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Post by Crimson King on Dec 7, 2016 9:11:58 GMT
There is no doubt that Queensbury is more distinct from Bradford than Royds which is really part of a continuous swathe of suburbia and estates - I work there and would be hard put to guess where the boundaries are
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Post by greenhert on Dec 7, 2016 17:07:07 GMT
Five seat Sheffield option 6: the Green gerrymander. (No, as far as I'm aware they haven't proposed this...) Sheffield South East (77,719): Arbourthorne, Beighton, Birley, Mosborough, Richmond, Woodhouse Sheffield Central (78,032): Broomhill, Central, Crookes, Nether Edge, Walkley, part of Gleadless Valley (PDs OA, OB, OF, OG, i.e. Heeley and Meersbrook) Sheffield Hallam & Norton (73,750): Beauchief & Greenhill, Dore & Totley, Ecclesall, Fulwood, Graves Park, rest of Gleadless Valley (i.e. Gleadless Valley proper) Sheffield Hillsborough (74,601): East Ecclesfield, Hillsborough, Stannington, Stocksbridge & Upper Don, West Ecclesfield, part of Southey (PDs WB and WD, i.e. Birley Carr and Fox Hill) Sheffield Brightside (77,328): Burngreave, Darnall, Firth Park, Manor Castle, Shiregreen & Brightside, rest of Southey (i.e. Southey Green and the part of Parson Cross in the ward) I have proposed something similar in my own blog, though: greensocialistalan.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/my-alternative-constituencies-south.html |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Dec 8, 2016 8:51:34 GMT
Five seat Sheffield option 6: the Green gerrymander. (No, as far as I'm aware they haven't proposed this...) Sheffield South East (77,719): Arbourthorne, Beighton, Birley, Mosborough, Richmond, Woodhouse Sheffield Central (78,032): Broomhill, Central, Crookes, Nether Edge, Walkley, part of Gleadless Valley (PDs OA, OB, OF, OG, i.e. Heeley and Meersbrook) Sheffield Hallam & Norton (73,750): Beauchief & Greenhill, Dore & Totley, Ecclesall, Fulwood, Graves Park, rest of Gleadless Valley (i.e. Gleadless Valley proper) Sheffield Hillsborough (74,601): East Ecclesfield, Hillsborough, Stannington, Stocksbridge & Upper Don, West Ecclesfield, part of Southey (PDs WB and WD, i.e. Birley Carr and Fox Hill) Sheffield Brightside (77,328): Burngreave, Darnall, Firth Park, Manor Castle, Shiregreen & Brightside, rest of Southey (i.e. Southey Green and the part of Parson Cross in the ward) I have proposed something similar in my own blog, though: greensocialistalan.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/my-alternative-constituencies-south.htmlDid you submit that to the BCE? |
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Post by greenhert on Dec 8, 2016 17:41:24 GMT
I did not get it in in time-I am busy with work and political activism outside this forum so I mostly just submitted proposals for the East of England region where I live, Nottinghamshire, and reasons for ward splits in Lancaster & Morecambe/North Lancashire (or Forest of Bowland, which I said it should be renamed to), and West Gloucestershire/Tewkesbury (or Tewkesbury & Cheltenham North, given that the Cheltenham wards will contribute a greater part to the redrawn Tewkesbury constituency).
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Post by hullenedge on Jan 2, 2017 12:02:50 GMT
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Post by greenhert on Jan 2, 2017 12:45:52 GMT
Hardly surprising-Royds is definitely part of the City of Bradford and has been for decades. This fact is not applicable to Queensbury, which was a separate town until 1974 (in some ways it still is).
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iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 11,453
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Post by iain on Jan 2, 2017 14:07:14 GMT
Not sure it really has legs beyond what I've already done, but you can get a decent Bradford & Leeds (-Morley, +Outwood) with no splits:
Keighley:
+Wharfedale
Bradford West:
+Bingley Rural
Bradford South:
+Little Horton
Bradford East & Pudsey:
-Idle & Thackley, Little Horton, +Calverley & Farsley, Pudsey
Shipley:
-Bingley Rural, Wharfedale, +Idle & Thackley, Guiseley & Rawdon
Leeds North West:
+Horsforth
Leeds North East:
+Hyde Park & Woodhouse
Leeds West:
+Beeston & Holbeck
Leeds East:
-Temple Newsam, +City & Hunslet, Burmantofts & Richmond Hill
Elmet
-Rothwell, +Temple Newsam
Rothwell & Outwood:
Rothwell, Ardsley & Robin Hood, Middleton Park, Stanley & Outwood East, Wrenthorpe & Outwood West
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 2, 2017 19:15:46 GMT
There's some potential there. Most options tend to require a Calderdale ward in Kirklees and vice versa and you'll have to split either Halifax or Brighouse, but otherwise you can get some reasonable sensible seats.
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
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Post by piperdave on Jan 2, 2017 19:25:21 GMT
They've had it too good for too long. Suck it up and take it, Calderdale! |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 2, 2017 20:53:39 GMT
Taking iain's arrangements for Leeds and Bradford as a starting point, you can create the following arrangement in Calderdale, Kirklees and Wakefield
Morley & Spen: Morley North, Morley South, Birstall & Birkenshaw, Liversedge & Gomersal, Heckmondwike
Dewsbury and Batley: Batley East, Batley West, Dewsbury East, Dewsbury South, Dewsbury West, Mirfield
Brighouse & Huddersfield West: Cleckheaton, Brighouse, Rastrick, Elland, Greetland & Stainland, Lindley, Golcar
Halifax: + Hipperholme & Lightcliffe
Calder & Colne Valleys: rest of Calderdale, Colne Valley, Holme Valley North, Holme Valley South
Huddersfield: + Crosland Moor & Netherton
Ossett & Denby Dale: Kirkburton, Denby Dale, Wakefield Rural, Ossett, Horby & South Ossett, Wakefield West
Wakefield & Hemsworth: Wakefield North, Wakefield East, Wakefield South, Crofton etc., Featherstone, Hemsworth, Ackworth etc.
Normanton, Pontefract & Castleford: unchanged
South Elmsall & South Kirkby goes with South Yorkshire.
It's ugly round Wakefield and you'd get complaints in the south-west of Kirklees, but otherwise it's perfectly serviceable.
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Post by hullenedge on Jan 3, 2017 7:38:10 GMT
Apologies but I still twitch at the thought of a cross-M62 seat in Calderdale/Huddersfield! Something for the next review once the new housing estates are completed.
Alternative names for the convolution of 'Calder and Colne Valleys' - South Pennines or Marsden Moor or Stoodley or Buckstones.
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Post by islington on Jan 3, 2017 11:06:49 GMT
W Yorks is a tricky area and i acknowledge I've changed my mind more than once. But I think I've settled on the following, which is very much based on 'minimum change'. And I acknowledge the contributions of many others here, especially Hullenedge.
All these are expressed in terms of existing seats.
ELMET & ROTHWELL (77287) - Unchanged
LEEDS NE (78304) - Current seat plus Hyde Park
LEEDS NW (73429) - Current seat plus Guiseley
LEEDS SE (76213) - Current Leeds E seat plus Burmantofts
LEEDS SW (76459) - Current Leeds W minus Bramley and plus City and Beeston (thus, the current Leeds C effectively vanishes)
MORLEY (77642) - Current Morley & Outwood minus the Wakefield element and plus Middleton Park and Tong (yes, I agree Tong isn't a great fit but it's not outrageously bad, and I note that the BCE has also proposed putting it in a (different) Leeds-based seat)
So far, this is all as per Hullenedge. But now glimmers of originality appear.
PUDSEY (77136) - Current seat minus Guiseley and plus Bramley and Eccleshill (another not-great fit)
WAKEFIELD (75131) - Current seat minus Horbury and Wakefield Rural and plus Wakefield S and the two Outwood wards (yes, I know I've split Ossett)
NORMANTON, P & C (78097) - No change
HEMSWORTH (71710) - Current seat minus Wakefield S and S Elmsall and plus Wakefield Rural and Horbury (so I agree that S Elmsall should be treated with Doncaster)
BATLEY & SPEN (75961) - No change
DEWSBURY (77167) - No change (except for ward realignment)
HUDDERSFIELD (76540) - Current seat plus Lindley
COLNE VALLEY (74304) - Current seat minus Lindley and plus Ryburn
CALDER VALLEY (74387) - Current seat less Ryburn and Hipperholme and plus Sowerby Bridge and Warley (not the most compact of seats I agree, but it does live up to its name)
HALIFAX (71591) - Current seat less Sowerby Bridge and Warley and plus Hipperholme and Queensbury (I'm pretty happy with this, it's a big improvement on the BCE's version and I think there's a consensus here that Queensbury is the most detachable ward from Bradford)
KEIGHLEY (76636) - Current seat plus Wharfedale (as per BCE and many suggestions here)
SHIPLEY (71974) - Current seat minus Wharfedale and plus Idle
That leaves 14 wards to form two Bradford seats and there are lots of legal ways of doing this. The 'least change' would be simply to add Bolton to Bradford W (which might then become 'Bradford N') with the remaining wards to make up 'Bradford S'. But I think the coherence of the two seats is increased by a further ward swap which gives us
BRADFORD NORTH WEST (73246) - Current Bradford W minus City and plus Gt Horton and Bolton
BRADFORD SOUTH EAST (72080) - Current Bradford S minus Tong, Gt Horton and Queensbury and plus City, Lt Horton, Bowling and Bradford Moor (I think on balance this seat looks better with the city centre included and Gt Horton left out, but I wouldn't go to the stake over it. Note that Royds stays in a Bradford seat. I've described this as a continuation of Bradford S, but it could equally be seen as the successor of Bradford E)
Note that despite the loss of two seats from this area, four existing seats are retained unaltered and several others are subject to relatively little change: either 'one-in' (i.e. the addition of a single ward) or one-in, one-out (the addition of one ward and removal of another).
Note also that, as with several other recent contributions, I am assuming that the boundary between West and South Yorkshire is uncrossed apart from the treatment of S Elmsall with Doncaster.
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Feb 28, 2017 8:25:49 GMT
Re Calderdale...Cllr Holden may have muddled Skircoat and Northowram. A possible Tory proposal - Queensbury, Northowram, Lightcliffe, Brighouse, Rastrick, Elland, Greetland, Ryburn and Sowerby Bridge. A plum seat for Craig Whittaker. The remainder - six Halifax wards and the three Upper Valley wards - would definitely lean to Labour. This is indeed what they're proposing. They call the first seat "Calder South" and the second "Calder North". doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ may like the Tory suggestion to rename the proposed Goole as "Goole, Howdenshire & the Isle of Axholme". The Tory suggestion in Sheffield splits three wards: - Sheffield Attercliffe: existing Sheffield SE plus Brightside/Wincobank part of Shiregreen & Brightside - Sheffield Heeley: existing plus Manor Castle - Sheffield Hallam: existing plus small part of Broomhill - Sheffield Central: existing, less Manor Castle and small part of Broomhill, plus Burngreave and part of Hillsborough - Sheffield Hillsborough: existing B&H less Burngreave and parts of Hillsborough and Shiregreen & Brightside, plus the two Ecclesfield wards (Stocksbridge is in a "Barnsley West & Stocksbridge" which includes Penistone East but not West, which is in Colne Valley as per Commission.) The split of Shiregreen & Brightside is the obvious one; the split of Broomhill just hives off a single polling district in the Endcliffe area into Hallam; the split of Hillsborough puts south-west Hillsborough (towards Malin Bridge) in Central and the rest in the seat they actually call Hillsborough. Not a bad plan, though the split of Hillsborough is a bit awkward (and I'd question calling the constituency Hillsborough when so much of Hillsborough is not in it) and I wonder whether the Commission will accept three ward splits. It appears that there's no full Labour counterproposal for SY and WY, which is a bit disappointing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 8:31:14 GMT
""Goole, Howdenshire & the Isle of Axholme"" is exactly my kind of language.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 28, 2017 10:52:27 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 12:12:57 GMT
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iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 11,453
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Post by iain on Feb 28, 2017 17:50:42 GMT
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Feb 28, 2017 18:08:28 GMT
Sheffield's Labour MPs have submitted a proposal for the city (ref 26358). It's compatible with the Tory proposal outside Sheffield, and also splits three wards, but different ones:
Sheffield South-East: existing plus part of Burngreave
Sheffield South: existing Heeley less Beauchief & Greenhill, plus Nether Edge and part of Central (the Sharrow bit)
Sheffield Central: existing less Nether Edge and part of Central, plus Hillsborough and part of Crookes (Crookes proper)
Sheffield Hallam: existing less part of Crookes, plus Beauchief & Greenhill
Sheffield North & Ecclesfield: existing B&H less Hillsborough and part of Burngreave, plus the Ecclesfield wards
I think this is better than the Tory map in north Sheffield: that North & Ecclesfield is significantly better than the Tories' Hillsborough. But the Tory map is better in the south and west (I don't like the Beauchief to Stannington seat) and their names are better too.
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