Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742 
|
Post by Adrian on Jul 8, 2016 10:24:02 GMT
I get the point about my NW Bradford seat. In my defence I would say 1. I don't like socially-engineered seats since it's a form of segregation and we have enough of that already. 2. I like clearly defined borders using streams, main roads, traditional boundaries etc.
Yes, I'm confident about the Kirkburton numbers. I used the electorates from this year's parish council elections and scaled them to the Review ward electorate.
Edit: And of course you're right about Hallam. My excuse is that I was getting tired...
Naming seats in Sheffield always causes me confusion. Maybe I should call my Hillsborough seat Hallam then? Or Hallam and Hillsborough? Or Hallam and Bradfield? And I don't want to have two seats confusingly called Ecclesall and Ecclesfield :-)
Hoyland vs Dearne: sure, but afaics the numbers don't quite work and I don't want the number of split wards to get out of hand...
|
|
YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,916
|
Post by YL on Jul 9, 2016 7:15:00 GMT
Naming seats in Sheffield always causes me confusion. Maybe I should call my Hillsborough seat Hallam then? Or Hallam and Hillsborough? Or Hallam and Bradfield? And I don't want to have two seats confusingly called Ecclesall and Ecclesfield :-) "Hillsborough" will do, but "Hallam & Hillsborough" might be better if it's not felt to be too cumbersome. The hardest of your Sheffield seats to name is the northern one; the traditional name to use would be Brightside, but you've taken Brightside out. In posts near the beginning of this thread I've suggested "Sheffield Burngreave & Ecclesfield" for a basically identical seat, but I suspect the Commission might be boring and end up with just "Sheffield North". Wentworth & Wombwell (72,925): same as you have it in Rotherham, plus Hoyland Milton, Rockingham, Wombwell. Barnsley East (71,180): Worsbrough, Stairfoot, Monk Bretton, Royston, plus points east Barnsley West & Penistone (71,101): rest of the borough (including most of the town) It's tight, but it works. |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 21, 2016 4:39:44 GMT
North Yorkshire Scarborough 71371 Ryedale 72033 Hambleton 72041 Richmondshire 72129 Craven 71892 Harrogate 71841 York 73287 Vale of York 72349  |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 23, 2016 11:41:46 GMT
I've changed my mind and decided to post this little monstrosity, but it's going in this thread rather than the main Y&H one. AustralianSwingVoter might find it useful. Sheffield, Barnsley and Rotherham with no split wards:  Sheffield Moorlands & Penistone 73,202 Sheffield, Hillsborough & Ecclesall 71,212 Sheffield, Heeley 78,366 Mosborough & Maltby 74,601 Rotherham South & Attercliffe 74,452 Sheffield Central & Masbrough 77,301 Ecclesfield & Wentworth 76,792 Barnsley North 71,128 Barnsley South & Wath 71,775 Rotherham North 72,254 Note that Rotherham town is split into four. The Moorlands & Penistone seat is not connected by road, and Ecclesall & Hillsborough only just is. Calling all Psephologists, can you improve on YL Sheffield no-split plan, if possible then please try and see if you can do better, if needed, you can cross the boundaries into Doncaster and West Yorkshire but preferably don't Please try, and see if you can beat me! |
|
|
|
Post by islington on Jul 23, 2016 12:49:21 GMT
YL -
This is genius. I salute you.
What this means, taking into account recent discussions in the Scottish thread, is that it is theoretically possible to draw up legal and contiguous seats for the entire UK without a single ward split anywhere.
(Of course, "theoretically possible" can be a far cry from "sensible" or "reasonable".)
|
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 2:40:36 GMT
I give you... AN IMPROVED SHEFFIELD NO WARD SPLIT Eternal Gratitude to YL of without whom I could of never figured out this plan Sheffield, Rotherham & Barnsley Mosborough & Maltby 71519 Rotherham South 76941 Rotherham North 71595 Sheffield Heeley 78448 Sheffield Central 77699 Sheffield Hillsborough & Ecclesall 71212 Sheffield Hallam, Penistone & Stocksbridge 73202 Sheffield Ecclesfield 77744 Barnsley South & Wath 71775 Barnsley North 71128  |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 3:33:21 GMT
I give you... AN IMPROVED SHEFFIELD NO WARD SPLIT Eternal Gratitude to YL of without whom I could of never figured out this plan Sheffield, Rotherham & Barnsley Mosborough & Maltby 71519 Rotherham South 76941 Rotherham North 71595 Sheffield Heeley 78448 Sheffield Central 77699 Sheffield Hillsborough & Ecclesall 71212 Sheffield Hallam, Penistone & Stocksbridge 73202 Sheffield Ecclesfield 77744 Barnsley South & Wath 71775 Barnsley North 71128 South YorkshireAnd just to prove that I couldn't have done it without YL original plan, an assessment of the differences between my plan and YL original plan MOSBOROUGH & MALTBY -Birley TO SHEFFIELD HEELEY +Holderness FROM ROTHERHAM SOUTH & ATTERCLIFFE ROTHERHAM SOUTH ROTHERHAM SOUTH & ATTERCLIFFE renamed and -Holderness TO MOSBOROUGH & MALTBY -Brinsworth & Catcliff AND Darnall TO SHEFFIELD CENTRAL & MASBROUGH +Hellaby AND Rotherham East AND Valley AND Wickersley FROM ROTHERHAM NORTH ROTHERHAM NORTH -Hellaby AND Rotherham East AND Valley AND Wickersley TO ROTHERHAM SOUTH & ATTERCLIFFE +Rotherham West FROM SHEFFIELD CENTRAL & MASBROUGH +Hoober AND Hoyland Milton AND Rockingham FROM ECCLESFIELD & WENTWORTH SHEFFIELD HEELEY -Manor Castle TO SHEFFIELD CENTRAL & MASBROUGH +Birley FROM MOSBOROUGH & MALTBY SHEFFIELD CENTRAL SHEFFIELD CENTRAL & MASBROUGH renamed and -Rotherham West TO ROTHERHAM NORTH -Firth Park AND Shiregreen and Brightside TO ECCLESFIELD & WENTWORTH +Brinsworth & Catcliff AND Darnall FROM ROTHERHAM SOUTH & ATTERCLIFFE +Manor Castle FROM SHEFFIELD HEELEY SHEFFIELD HILLSBOROUGH & ECCLESALL IDENTICAL SHEFFIELD HALLAM, PENISTONE & STOCKSBRIDGE IDENTICAL SHEFFIELD MOORLANDS & PENISTONE renamed SHEFFIELD ECCLESFIELD ECCLESFIELD & WENTWORTH renamed and -Hoober AND Hoyland Milton AND Rockingham TO ROTHERHAM NORTH +Firth Park AND Shiregreen and Brightside FROM SHEFFIELD CENTRAL & MASBROUGH BARNSLEY SOUTH & WATH IDENTICAL BARNSLEY NORTH IDENTICAL So 4 seats identical (BARNSLEY NORTH, BARNSLEY SOUTH & WATH, SHEFFIELD HILLSBOROUGH & ECCLESALL, SHEFFIELD MOORLANDS & PENISTONE) another 2 with minor changes (MOSBOROUGH & MALTBY, SHEFFIELD HEELEY) and 4 with major changes (ECCLESFIELD & WENTWORTH, ROTHERHAM NORTH, ROTHERHAM SOUTH & ATTERCLIFFE, SHEFFIELD CENTRAL & MASBROUGH) |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 7:51:26 GMT
West Yorkshire Keighley 76636 Shipley 71379 Bradford North 74447 Bradford South 72387 Otley 77619 Wetherby 72714 Leeds North 75285 Pudsey 72307 Morley 77642 Leeds Central 77866 Leeds East 78120 Selby & Goole 77948 Pontefract 71246 Normanton, Hemsworth & Castleford 78410 Wakefield 76795 Batley & Birstall 75961 Dewsbury 77818 Valleys of Colne & Holme 77566 Huddersfield 77148 Halifax 77570 Calderdale OR Brighouse 75168  |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 9:18:27 GMT
East Yorkshire Kingston-upon-Hull East 76217 Kingston-upon-Hull Central 71404 Kingston-upon-Hull West 75103 Bridlington & Holderness 71117 Beverley 74232  |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 9:18:40 GMT
Doncaster Doncaster North 77617 Doncaster Central 76987 Doncaster South 74097  |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 9:18:50 GMT
North Yorkshire Scarborough 71371 Ryedale 72033 Hambleton 72041 Richmondshire 72129 Craven 71892 Harrogate 71841 York Central 73287 York Outer 72349 |
|
|
|
Post by islington on Jul 24, 2016 10:15:26 GMT
I give you... AN IMPROVED SHEFFIELD NO WARD SPLIT Eternal Gratitude to YL of without whom I could of never figured out this plan Sheffield, Rotherham & Barnsley Mosborough & Maltby 71519 Rotherham South 76941 Rotherham North 71595 Sheffield Heeley 78448 Sheffield Central 77699 Sheffield Hillsborough & Ecclesall 71212 Sheffield Hallam, Penistone & Stocksbridge 73202 Sheffield Ecclesfield 77744 Barnsley South & Wath 71775 Barnsley North 71128 South YorkshireCongrats again to YL for achieving the near-impossible of a non-split Sheffield, and to ASV for improving it. However, these plans mean that the Swinton ward of Rotherham is no longer available to make up the numbers in Doncaster, which therefore needs to be reinforced elsewhere. ASV proposes to cross the boundary with Humberside but this is consistent with his general willingness to disregard LA boundaries. Since we already have satisfactory plans that treat the former Humberside as a unit, I think it is better to treat Doncaster with Wakefield for 6 seats, which means that Kirklees has to go in with Calderdale, Bradford and Leeds for 17 seats. But we already have a plan upthread (Hullenedge's, as modified by myself) that gives 11 seats (with no ward splits) to Leeds plus Bradford (excepting the Bradford ward of Wyke). So all we need is a plan to give 6 seats to Kirklees + Calderdale + Wyke. And here it is, together with Wakefield and the whole of S Yorkshire.  Electorates as follows (for Wyke (Bradford) / Calderdale / Kirkless / Wakefield / Doncaster only - Sheffield / Barnsley / Rotherham are identical to ASV's plan as above): Halifax West - 76079 Halifax East - 72393 Colne Valley - 74470 Huddersfield - 74846 Mirfield - 76064 (for want of a better name) Dewsbury - 74291 Wakefield - 74598 Normanton - 72501 (not a pretty seat, splitting the towns of Outwood (with the previous seat) and Castleford (with the following seat) Castleford and Pontefract - 77839 Doncaster North - 75585 (or Mexborough?) Doncaster South - 76115 (or plain Doncaster?) Doncaster East - 71928 (or Thorne? Names in the Doncaster area are highly negotiable) |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 10:20:36 GMT
...but this is consistent with his general willingness to disregard LA boundaries... OI!, I just prefer to follow historic counties and to make good seats, regardless of LA boundaries which in some cases are just random drawings by a 1970s bureaucrat. |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 11:18:47 GMT
I give you... AN IMPROVED SHEFFIELD NO WARD SPLIT Eternal Gratitude to YL of without whom I could of never figured out this plan Sheffield, Rotherham & Barnsley Mosborough & Maltby 71519 Rotherham South 76941 Rotherham North 71595 Sheffield Heeley 78448 Sheffield Central 77699 Sheffield Hillsborough & Ecclesall 71212 Sheffield Hallam, Penistone & Stocksbridge 73202 Sheffield Ecclesfield 77744 Barnsley South & Wath 71775 Barnsley North 71128 Congrats again to YL for achieving the near-impossible of a non-split Sheffield, and to ASV for improving it. However, these plans mean that the Swinton ward of Rotherham is no longer available to make up the numbers in Doncaster, which therefore needs to be reinforced elsewhere. ASV proposes to cross the boundary with Humberside but this is consistent with his general willingness to disregard LA boundaries. Since we already have satisfactory plans that treat the former Humberside as a unit, I think it is better to treat Doncaster with Wakefield for 6 seats, which means that Kirklees has to go in with Calderdale, Bradford and Leeds for 17 seats. But we already have a plan upthread (Hullenedge's, as modified by myself) that gives 11 seats (with no ward splits) to Leeds plus Bradford (excepting the Bradford ward of Wyke). So all we need is a plan to give 6 seats to Kirklees + Calderdale + Wyke. And here it is, together with Wakefield and the whole of S Yorkshire. Electorates as follows (for Wyke (Bradford) / Calderdale / Kirkless / Wakefield / Doncaster only - Sheffield / Barnsley / Rotherham are identical to ASV's plan as above): Halifax West - 76079 Halifax East - 72393 Colne Valley - 74470 Huddersfield - 74846 Mirfield - 76064 (for want of a better name) Dewsbury - 74291 Wakefield - 74598 Normanton - 72501 (not a pretty seat, splitting the towns of Outwood (with the previous seat) and Castleford (with the following seat) Castleford and Pontefract - 77839 Doncaster North - 75585 (or Mexborough?) Doncaster South - 76115 (or plain Doncaster?) Doncaster East - 71928 (or Thorne? Names in the Doncaster area are highly negotiable) And what do you think of my West Yorkshire plan islington? |
|
|
|
Post by islington on Jul 24, 2016 17:50:56 GMT
West Yorkshire Keighley 76636 Shipley 71379 Bradford North 74447 Bradford South 72387 Otley 77619 Wetherby 72714 Leeds North 75285 Pudsey 72307 Morley 77642 Leeds Central 77866 Leeds East 78120 Selby & Goole 77948 Pontefract 71246 Normanton, Hemsworth & Castleford 78410 Wakefield 76795 Batley & Birstall 75961 Dewsbury 77818 Valleys of Colne & Holme 77566 Huddersfield 77148 Halifax 77570 Calderdale OR Brighouse 75168 West YorkshireWell, since you ask ... Most of it hangs together quite nicely, although I'd raise issues here and there: e.g. Illingworth ward definitely belongs with Halifax rather than Calderdale (would it work if you took Sowerby Bridge instead?); Leeds C is ungainly, as is Normanton; Dewsbury projects a very long way into Huddersfield ... But my main reservation is that you're trying to follow local government boundaries that ceased to have effect a generation ago. It's your plan, of course, so it's up to you if you want to do this, but it's not a course of action I'd recommend. These boundaries belong in the past and they should be left there. |
|
YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,916
|
Post by YL on Jul 24, 2016 19:53:16 GMT
I give you... AN IMPROVED SHEFFIELD NO WARD SPLIT Eternal Gratitude to YL of without whom I could of never figured out this plan Sheffield, Rotherham & Barnsley Mosborough & Maltby 71519 Rotherham South 76941 Rotherham North 71595 Sheffield Heeley 78448 Sheffield Central 77699 Sheffield Hillsborough & Ecclesall 71212 Sheffield Hallam, Penistone & Stocksbridge 73202 Sheffield Ecclesfield 77744 Barnsley South & Wath 71775 Barnsley North 71128 South YorkshireYes, that's less bad in Rotherham, and it has a more sensible north Sheffield seat (though still with the rather random addition of Keppel ward of Rotherham). OTOH the orphaning of Woodhouse is one of those undesirable things non-split schemes are prone to doing in areas with difficult ward sizes, and I think the weirdness in west Sheffield is unavoidable for a non-split scheme. A handful of points on names (one of which is my fault): - There isn't enough of the traditional Hallam area in the weird western seat to justify the name IMO, which is why I suggested something new (and the obvious shared feature of the Sheffield wards in it is that they all contain moorlands, hence my choice...). - I actually remembered when looking at it again that part of the town of Maltby is in Hellaby ward, so Maltby is actually split and using its name isn't a great idea. I'm tempted to suggest "Mosborough & Wales" as an alternative. - Your north Sheffield seat might as well retain the old Sheffield Brightside name. - Calling a seat which actually goes outside the city boundary "Sheffield Central" is a bit awkward. But I don't really have any good suggestions for a seat stretching from Nether Edge to Brinsworth which aren't a mouthful. |
|
|
|
Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Jul 24, 2016 21:55:00 GMT
West Yorkshire Keighley 76636 Shipley 71379 Bradford North 74447 Bradford South 72387 Otley 77619 Wetherby 72714 Leeds North 75285 Pudsey 72307 Morley 77642 Leeds Central 77866 Leeds East 78120 Selby & Goole 77948 Pontefract 71246 Normanton, Hemsworth & Castleford 78410 Wakefield 76795 Batley & Birstall 75961 Dewsbury 77818 Valleys of Colne & Holme 77566 Huddersfield 77148 Halifax 77570 Calderdale OR Brighouse 75168 But my main reservation is that you're trying to follow local government boundaries that ceased to have effect a generation ago. It's your plan, of course, so it's up to you if you want to do this, but it's not a course of action I'd recommend. These boundaries belong in the past and they should be left there. But just a few hours ago in Scotland you were saying I didn't follow them at all and know I follow them too much? |
|
|
|
Post by islington on Jul 25, 2016 17:58:02 GMT
ASV
It's your scheme, don't let me or anyone else tell you how to do it.
I wasn't going to comment until you specifically asked for my opinion: which is, that in Yorkshire or Scotland or anywhere else, the local government boundaries that exist today are an important factor to which regard should be had alongside other relevant factors (community ties, least change, &c). But I can't see the relevance of boundaries that were abolished over forty years ago.
But as I say, that's just my opinion. You do it your way.
|
|
|
|
Post by greenhert on Jul 28, 2016 20:13:29 GMT
My finalised plan for Selby, Howdenshire, Goole and South Yorkshire except for the city of Sheffield (so that Lincolnshire and East Yorkshire can be feasibly separated without causing too much disruption):
1. Selby & Howdenshire (75,156). The district of Selby except for the wards of Whitley, Camblesforth & Carlton, Tadcaster and Appleton Roebuck & Church Fenton, plus all of the old Haltemprice & Howden constituency except for the wards of Cottingham North/South, South Hunsley, Tranby, and Willerby & Kirk Ella (transferred to Kingston-Upon-Hull West & Cottingham).
2. Goole (77,416). The Goole part of Brigg & Goole, the Selby wards of Whitley and Camblesforth & Carlton (part of the old Goole constituency) and the Doncaster wards of Thorne & Moorends, Norton & Askern, Hatfield, Edenthorpe & Kirk Sandall, and Stainforth & Danby Don.
3. Doncaster (76,988). The Doncaster wards of Sprotbrough, Ardwick-le-Street & Cancroft, Bentley, Roman Ridge, Wheatley Hills & Intake, Town, Hexthorpe & Balby North, and Balby South.
4. Don Valley (73,705). The Doncaster wards of Armthorpe, Edlington & Warmsworth, Bessacarr, Conisborough, Finningley, Rossington & Bawtry, and Tickhill & Wadworth.
5. Rother Valley (73,511). Unchanged.
6. Rotherham (71,116). Gains Wickersley ward.
7. Wentworth & Dearne (74,316). The Barnsley wards of Dearne North/South, the Doncaster ward of Mexborough, and the Rotherham wards that are not part of Rotherham or Rother Valley. 8. Barnsley (77,789). The Barnsley wards of Kingstone, Central, North East, Stairfoot, Monk Bretton, Old Town, St Helens, Darfield, and Cudworth. 9. Penistone (74,364). The Barnsley wards of Penistone East/West, Rockingham, Dodworth, Darton East/West, Hoyland Milton, Wombwell, and Worsbrough.
|
|
|
|
Post by David Ashforth on Jul 28, 2016 20:33:05 GMT
... - I actually remembered when looking at it again that part of the town of Maltby is in Hellaby ward, so Maltby is actually split and using its name isn't a great idea. I'm tempted to suggest "Mosborough & Wales" as an alternative... I'd like to see a seat called "Wales". If we could have a seat that stretched from Rotherham to Worksop we could have a seat called "Wales & Rhodesia". But, of course, that would cross county boundaries. |
|
