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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 6, 2016 13:50:17 GMT
The electoral system serves the voters of this area perfectly well. A majority consistently decide that their interests are best served by the election of a Labour MP, and a Labour MP is what they get. The city of Sheffield tend to vote for one Lib Dem, one Conservative and three Labour MPs by proportion. That's not what they get though. This constituency doesn't cover the city of Sheffield though. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 14:04:45 GMT
Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough local election results by ward, 2015 local elections: | Ward | Con | Lab | LD | UKIP | Grn | TUSC | | Burngreave | 518 | 5507 | 244 | 1051 | 576 | 423 | | Firth Park | 575 | 4282 | 273 | 2026 | 350 | 76 | | Hillsborough | 1017 | 4379 | 1148 | 1801 | 996 | 132 | | Shiregreen and Brightside | 651 | 4090 | 267 | 2246 | 376 | | | Southey | 640 | 3507 | 354 | 2150 | 530 | 84 | | Total | 3401 | 21765 | 2286 | 9274 | 2668 | 715 | | Percentage of votes | 8.48 | 54.26 | 5.7 | 23.12 | 6.65 | 1.78 |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,759 
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 6, 2016 14:13:42 GMT
Split the ward into three single member wards. From my figures that would result in 3 LD single-member wards, not 2 LD single member wards and 1 Lab single member ward. The fewer members an electoral division has the less proportional the result is. What I posted was that I wanted a system where 45% Party A, 42% Party B resulted in /both/ parties being represented as requested by the voters, not just Party A. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,759
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 6, 2016 14:20:27 GMT
Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough local election results by ward, 2015 local elections: | Ward | Con | Lab | LD | UKIP | Grn | TUSC | | Burngreave | 518 | 5507 | 244 | 1051 | 576 | 423 | | Firth Park | 575 | 4282 | 273 | 2026 | 350 | 76 | | Hillsborough | 1017 | 4379 | 1148 | 1801 | 996 | 132 | | Shiregreen and Brightside | 651 | 4090 | 267 | 2246 | 376 |
| | Southey | 640 | 3507 | 354 | 2150 | 530 | 84 | | Total | 3401 | 21765 | 2286 | 9274 | 2668 | 715 | | Percentage of votes | 8.48 | 54.26 | 5.7 | 23.12 | 6.65 | 1.78 |
Very close to the General Election figures: Percentage of votes
| 11.0 | 56.6 | 4.5 | 22.1 | 4.3 | 1.1 | EngDem 0.4 |
Edit: The Hillsborough ward figures for LD probably boosted by the candidate being on the local ballot as well as the national ballot. |
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,842
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Post by Crimson King on Feb 6, 2016 14:25:27 GMT
Split the ward into three single member wards. From my figures that would result in 3 LD single-member wards, not 2 LD single member wards and 1 Lab single member ward. The fewer members an electoral division has the less proportional the result is. What I posted was that I wanted a system where 45% Party A, 42% Party B resulted in /both/ parties being represented as requested by the voters, not just Party A. Not sure I agree - If the votes are distributed evenly over a three member ward AND evryone votes the straight ticket, then the results in 3 single member wards (in this case 3LD) will be no more or less proportional than on 3 member ward, however a larger number of small wards brings the likelihood, or at least the possibility, of a more proportional result, and even more so over a larger number, for example authority wide. For this reason it has been my view for some time that if we are not to have STV I would prefer the maximum number of single memeber wards. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,759
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 6, 2016 16:13:35 GMT
From my figures that would result in 3 LD single-member wards, not 2 LD single member wards and 1 Lab single member ward. The fewer members an electoral division has the less proportional the result is. What I posted was that I wanted a system where 45% Party A, 42% Party B resulted in /both/ parties being represented as requested by the voters, not just Party A. Not sure I agree - If the votes are distributed evenly over a three member ward AND evryone votes the straight ticket, then the results in 3 single member wards (in this case 3LD) will be no more or less proportional than on 3 member ward, however a larger number of small wards brings the likelihood, or at least the possibility, of a more proportional result, and even more so over a larger number, for example authority wide. For this reason it has been my view for some time that if we are not to have STV I would prefer the maximum number of single memeber wards. Would I get into trouble publishing my box counts?  When given the option the voters in Walkley don't vote the straight party ticket. Damn Them! Checking my box counts shows that from year to year different parties won different box counts, fairly consitantly 40%/45% split between the top two parties. However, the geographic spread is such that if Walkley was three single-member wards each single-member ward would still have the same 40%/45% split as the whole-ward result. (For instance, eg, the far west PD plus the far south PD plus the far east PD would be a 1-member Lab win, but they are separated by 8 or 9 other PDs that dilute the result to similar to the whole-ward result.) I agree though, that if FPTP is the only option available, single-member wards work better. |
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Post by iainbhx on Feb 6, 2016 18:52:11 GMT
The Lib Dems lost all credit on voting systems for me when they campaigned for a yes vote for the worst system going. There are fair worse systems out there than AV. How about a Weimar system. |
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Post by woollyliberal on Feb 7, 2016 8:27:09 GMT
The city of Sheffield tend to vote for one Lib Dem, one Conservative and three Labour MPs by proportion. That's not what they get though. This constituency doesn't cover the city of Sheffield though. It doesn't, no. But that's just a feature of our current voting system and under current boundaries. Nothing is fixed in stone. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,025
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 7, 2016 17:32:13 GMT
How entirely relevant.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Feb 8, 2016 12:46:22 GMT
Peter Law didn't make it either, died April 2006 IIRC.
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Post by samdwebber on Feb 9, 2016 13:08:04 GMT
Not likely to be of the more interesting by-elections. However, I do feel sorry for the electoral team at Sheffield City Council who are likely to have more than one by-election to arrange this parliament. Can the calendar work so that this is held on the first Thursday in May I wonder? If this post refers to a potential Sheffield Hallam, I very much doubt this will happen any time soon. I think Nick Clegg needs to serve out his term and not stand down before the next election. Unless he was offered 'a job he cannot not refuse' I doubt the Leader's team would want an avoidable by-election in a seat we only narrowly held with a majority of 2,353 votes / 4.2% on a high General Election turnout of 76.7%. Mick, you might know more than me or you might be hoping the Right Honourable Gentleman is run over by a bus (?!) but I think he will have to tough it out. Only time will tell. Also if I were Jeremy Corbyn (after the funeral for the late MP Harry Harpham) I would contemplate an early by-election before May, given a likely strong result for Labour would be helpful in advance of May 5th but they will probably play it safe...... |
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Post by mick745 on Feb 9, 2016 14:00:07 GMT
Not likely to be of the more interesting by-elections. However, I do feel sorry for the electoral team at Sheffield City Council who are likely to have more than one by-election to arrange this parliament. Can the calendar work so that this is held on the first Thursday in May I wonder? If this post refers to a potential Sheffield Hallam, I very much doubt this will happen any time soon. I think Nick Clegg needs to serve out his term and not stand down before the next election. Unless he was offered 'a job he cannot not refuse' I doubt the Leader's team would want an avoidable by-election in a seat we only narrowly held with a majority of 2,353 votes / 4.2% on a high General Election turnout of 76.7%. Mick, you might know more than me or you might be hoping the Right Honourable Gentleman is run over by a bus (?!) but I think he will have to tough it out. Only time will tell. Also if I were Jeremy Corbyn (after the funeral for the late MP Harry Harpham) I would contemplate an early by-election before May, given a likely strong result for Labour would be helpful in advance of May 5th but they will probably play it safe...... just to clarify that I do not wish anyone, friend or foe, to be run over by a bus... |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 9, 2016 14:41:06 GMT
I want those who want me to subsidise their bus fares to be run over by a bus
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,842
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Post by Crimson King on Feb 9, 2016 15:27:10 GMT
I want those who want me to subsidise their bus fares to be run over by a bus ironically more likely if there are additional subsidised buses running |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,759
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 9, 2016 16:36:55 GMT
Not likely to be of the more interesting by-elections. However, I do feel sorry for the electoral team at Sheffield City Council who are likely to have more than one by-election to arrange this parliament. Can the calendar work so that this is held on the first Thursday in May I wonder? That's entirely down to when the Writ is moved in Parliament to call the by-election. Usually the whips of the deceased member's party move the writ, if they want it to be on 5th May they would disuss with the relevant authorities on when to move the writ so the timetabling falls out onto the right day. A writ is "normally" moved within three months of the vacancy, so there is time to schedule the writ appropriately to fit with 5th May. Once the writ is moved (and approved by Parliament, usually a formality), the election has to be within 21 and 27 electoral days of the local council receiving the writ. It is normally deemed that the council receives the writ on day 1, with day 0 being the moving of the writ. If a by-election is to be held on 5th May the writ will have to be moved between about 29th March and 6th April. "Days" for these purposes excludes Saturdays, Sundays, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Good Friday, bank holidays and any day appointed for public thanksgiving or mourning. reference |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 9, 2016 22:12:35 GMT
I want those who want me to subsidise their bus fares to be run over by a bus But that'd be one fewer bus passenger so the subsidy would go up! |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 9, 2016 22:13:54 GMT
Not likely to be of the more interesting by-elections. However, I do feel sorry for the electoral team at Sheffield City Council who are likely to have more than one by-election to arrange this parliament. Can the calendar work so that this is held on the first Thursday in May I wonder? If this post refers to a potential Sheffield Hallam, I very much doubt this will happen any time soon. I think Nick Clegg needs to serve out his term and not stand down before the next election. Unless he was offered 'a job he cannot not refuse' I doubt the Leader's team would want an avoidable by-election in a seat we only narrowly held with a majority of 2,353 votes / 4.2% on a high General Election turnout of 76.7%. Mick, you might know more than me or you might be hoping the Right Honourable Gentleman is run over by a bus (?!) but I think he will have to tough it out. Only time will tell. Also if I were Jeremy Corbyn ( after the funeral for the late MP Harry Harpham) I would contemplate an early by-election before May, given a likely strong result for Labour would be helpful in advance of May 5th but they will probably play it safe...... Labour don't always wait for the funeral. e.g. Crewe & Nantwich |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 9, 2016 22:18:30 GMT
Still obsessed with that non-slight after eight years I see.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Feb 9, 2016 23:23:30 GMT
Still obsessed with that non-slight after eight years I see. Only 8 years? Simon Hughes was getting pulled up over the "straight choice" for more than twenty. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 12:05:38 GMT
Still obsessed with that non-slight after eight years I see. Not one to bring up the past are you? |
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