|
|
Post by timrollpickering on Feb 21, 2016 11:37:07 GMT
Yes - by about a dozen years. His prior inheritance seems to have been the family pub.
|
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
|
Post by Khunanup on Feb 21, 2016 18:31:35 GMT
Well exactly. I used fascist in its true meaning as above, not as shorthand (FFS I find that insulting that anyone would think I would). I was responding to your statement that Crime, vigilantism and unrepentant terrorism are things I would associate more with the hard left than any other part of the political spectrum. I am aware that Mussolini, like Mosley, had previously been a man of the left and that fascist ideology incorporated element of left wing thinking and practise. However it was not, overall, a movement of the left. Sinn Fein today is very clearly a party of the left. Their left wing economic rhetoric, their ultra politically correct attitudes and constant banging on about 'equality' marks them out as being on the left. Ghyl Tarvoke makes the point that while he doesn't like SF he thinks "they are better on women's rights than FF or FG or the three other main parties in Stormont and have never really engaged in anti-immigrant rhetoric " By 'better' he means more left wing and their attitudes to immigration are also highly left wing. To label these scum 'fascists' is, as I say, both inaccurate and also unfair to fascists. Clearly your defence of the far right blinds you to what fascism really is and what it consists of. As a Liberal why do you think I care if I'm being 'fair' or not to fascists. Extremists are all as bad as each other, whether they regard themselves to be on the Left, the Right or neither. |
|
|
|
Post by greenchristian on Feb 21, 2016 19:17:24 GMT
Crime, vigilantism and unrepentant terrorism are things I would associate more with the hard left than any other part of the political spectrum. Do you think of the Ku Klux Klan as part of the hard left?  |
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Feb 21, 2016 19:55:03 GMT
Do you think of the Ku Klux Klan as part of the hard left? No. Please note the word 'more' isn't the same as 'exclusively'. Although there are still dress up groups calling themselves KKK the reality is, as I'm sure you're aware, that the KKK as a significant organisation involved in political violence hasn't existed for about 50 years. Its telling that you had to go back 50 years to find a significant example. (widely held responsible for the bombing of Bologna station). |
|
|
|
Post by greenchristian on Feb 21, 2016 19:55:59 GMT
Do you think of the Ku Klux Klan as part of the hard left? No. Please note the word 'more' isn't the same as 'exclusively'. Although there are still dress up groups calling themselves KKK the reality is, as I'm sure you're aware, that the KKK as a significant organisation involved in political violence hasn't existed for about 50 years. Its telling that you had to go back 50 years to find a significant example. To be honest, that was the first example that came to mind. I could, alternatively, point out groups like the UVF (who are precisely as recent as the Provos), or Islamicist groups (who are, of course, more recent than that). I have to say that I don't associate criminality, vigilantism, or unrepentant terrorism with the hard left in any way, shape, or form. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 20:51:07 GMT
No. Please note the word 'more' isn't the same as 'exclusively'. Although there are still dress up groups calling themselves KKK the reality is, as I'm sure you're aware, that the KKK as a significant organisation involved in political violence hasn't existed for about 50 years. Its telling that you had to go back 50 years to find a significant example. To be honest, that was the first example that came to mind. I could, alternatively, point out groups like the UVF (who are precisely as recent as the Provos), or Islamicist groups (who are, of course, more recent than that). I have to say that I don't associate criminality, vigilantism, or unrepentant terrorism with the hard left in any way, shape, or form. Baader-Mienhoff? |
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,306 
|
Post by maxque on Feb 21, 2016 21:39:39 GMT
I don't see why you bother, pjones obviously suffers from a "left derangement syndrome".
|
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 21, 2016 21:40:49 GMT
To be honest, that was the first example that came to mind. I could, alternatively, point out groups like the UVF (who are precisely as recent as the Provos), or Islamicist groups (who are, of course, more recent than that). I have to say that I don't associate criminality, vigilantism, or unrepentant terrorism with the hard left in any way, shape, or form. Baader-Mienhoff? Action Directe, Brigate Rossi too. |
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 21, 2016 23:12:52 GMT
No. Please note the word 'more' isn't the same as 'exclusively'. Although there are still dress up groups calling themselves KKK the reality is, as I'm sure you're aware, that the KKK as a significant organisation involved in political violence hasn't existed for about 50 years. Its telling that you had to go back 50 years to find a significant example. To be honest, that was the first example that came to mind. I could, alternatively, point out groups like the UVF (who are precisely as recent as the Provos), or Islamicist groups (who are, of course, more recent than that). I have to say that I don't associate criminality, vigilantism, or unrepentant terrorism with the hard left in any way, shape, or form. TBF, the political wing of the UVF is the PUP, who do view themselves as an organisation on the political left. Though it is of course ridiculous to think of either SF or the PUP, much less their armed affiliates, as hard-left organisations. It's just not the relevant determinant. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 22, 2016 7:39:27 GMT
To be honest, that was the first example that came to mind. I could, alternatively, point out groups like the UVF (who are precisely as recent as the Provos), or Islamicist groups (who are, of course, more recent than that). I have to say that I don't associate criminality, vigilantism, or unrepentant terrorism with the hard left in any way, shape, or form. TBF, the political wing of the UVF is the PUP, who do view themselves as an organisation on the political left. Though it is of course ridiculous to think of either SF or the PUP, much less their armed affiliates, as hard-left organisations. It's just not the relevant determinant. Unfortunately there are lots of wishful thinkers who think SF are a fun leftist alternative. |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 22, 2016 9:17:19 GMT
TBF, the political wing of the UVF is the PUP, who do view themselves as an organisation on the political left. Though it is of course ridiculous to think of either SF or the PUP, much less their armed affiliates, as hard-left organisations. It's just not the relevant determinant. Unfortunately there are lots of wishful thinkers who think SF are a fun leftist alternative. But they should be encouraged to become one (and likewise the PUP). There are lots of legitimate political parties that were terrorist movements in the past including both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, the ANC, etc. |
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,785
Member is Online
|
Post by john07 on Feb 22, 2016 14:28:57 GMT
I don't see why you bother, pjones obviously suffers from a "left derangement syndrome". I would say left derangement syndrome. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 22, 2016 16:49:43 GMT
Unfortunately there are lots of wishful thinkers who think SF are a fun leftist alternative. But they should be encouraged to become one (and likewise the PUP). There are lots of legitimate political parties that were terrorist movements in the past including both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, the ANC, etc. I don't disagree, but do they want that? Probably not until the Adams generation goes or the Southerners take over. |
|
|
|
Post by mrhell on Feb 23, 2016 0:42:19 GMT
I don't know if this link has been posted www.votomatic.ie/It's only 10 questions but I got Labour 82, Green 81, SD 79, FF 73, SF 71, AAA/PBP 70, FG 59, RI 52 |
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
|
Post by Khunanup on Feb 23, 2016 1:29:58 GMT
I don't know if this link has been posted www.votomatic.ie/It's only 10 questions but I got Labour 82, Green 81, SD 79, FF 73, SF 71, AAA/PBP 70, FG 59, RI 52 Green 77, SD 77, Lab 72, AAA/PBB 72, Shinners 68, FF 63, FG 50, Renua 43 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 7:33:39 GMT
AAA/PBP: 79%, Social Democrat: 78%, SF: 76%, Labour: 67%, Green: 66%, FF: 55%, FG: 39%, Renua :37%
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 9:11:27 GMT
AAA/PBP 92, SF 80, SD 75, Lab 62, Grn 62, FF 45, FG 26, Renua 18.
|
|
neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
|
Post by neilm on Feb 23, 2016 10:10:07 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by timrollpickering on Feb 23, 2016 12:23:05 GMT
Renua Ireland 80%
Fine Gael 78%
Fianna Fáil 63%
Labour Party 54%
Green Party 54%
Social Democrats 38%
Sinn Féin 31%
AAA/PBP 26%
I was a little surprised by the top as my view on abortion is not Lucinda Creighton's.
|
|
mondialito
Labour
Everything is horribly, brutally possible.
Posts: 4,961
|
Post by mondialito on Feb 23, 2016 12:28:14 GMT
Social Democrats 85%
Labour 82%
AAA/PBP 80%
Sinn Fein 77%
Greens 73%
Fianna Fail 67%
Fine Gael 50%
Renua 43%
|
|
