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Post by Devonian on Nov 2, 2014 0:16:55 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2014 0:23:14 GMT
A party that combines the worst of the greens, labour and ukip. Really the lowest of all common denominators. If Spain votes for this lot of unemployed hippies, academics and "creatives" to run the country then they should take an extra long siesta.
The rise of parties like this in Greece and Spain is deeply worrying for the eurozone. They are threatening to turn these countries into even more of a joke than they already are. Itll be like living next to Venezuela.
Policies
Vote on leaving NATO
Defaulting on Spanish debt
Reducing VAT on "cultural" events
Forced nationalisation of private hospitals
35 hours maximum working week
Retirement age of 60
In other words - they are simply idiots. I don't say things like that lightly.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Nov 2, 2014 3:24:46 GMT
That is a very low mark for the PP. No way will they drop that far.
A government made up of the PSOE, Izquerida Unida and Podemos would drive the Catalans out. There are multiple shades of opinion in the Generalitat but they'd coalesce pretty quickly if they got squeezed.
As an aside, this nationalisation of private hospitals thing is not as odd as it looks. There are loads of private clinics in Spain, far more than the UK.
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Post by Devonian on Nov 25, 2014 20:09:06 GMT
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Nov 27, 2014 10:37:22 GMT
Amazing that regular still has 25.2% The Spanish national government is awful! I assumed muy mala would be up around 65-70%.
I hadn't seen that Navarra poll. I'd be surprised if Podemos did that well there but there's certainly a market for radicalism in that area. Podemos needs to focus on stuff other than changing the constitution if it wants to keep the indignigados on board and reach beyond them as well, something I'm not sure the new leader can (or wants to) do. There's no doubt they'll hit the IU hard next time though and may end up forcing a grand coalition, something which will hurt the PSOE if it happens.
The leader of Syriza spoke at Podemos' post internal election rally last week, I've not watched any footage but may do now.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 27, 2014 15:16:45 GMT
Policies Vote on leaving NATO Defaulting on Spanish debt Reducing VAT on "cultural" events Forced nationalisation of private hospitals 35 hours maximum working week Retirement age of 60 In other words - they are simply idiots. I don't say things like that lightly. Ah, tax breaks for "things we like" and a chance to shoulder more of the burden of Spain ageing faster than any other European nation- that should bring Hispania's emigrant youth flooding back. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Nov 27, 2014 15:17:10 GMT
I'm thinking of the Basque bits but I admit that's the part I've been to. Yolanda Barcina is a divisive figure and quite strident from what I've seen of her on TVE.
I'd forgotten the CAN issue, one tends to think that the cajas are now fixed but clearly not. For those who don't know, the cajas were (are) local savings banks that had been used for a long time by politicians as sources of funds for all kinds of stuff. They were weakly regulated.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Nov 27, 2014 19:18:21 GMT
An interesting historical detail is that the PSOE in opposition used rhetoric and proposed policies that placed it well to the left of mainstream social democracy elsewhere; as soon as they gained power, of course, it was a rather different story...
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 30, 2014 12:00:28 GMT
An interesting historical detail is that the PSOE in opposition used rhetoric and proposed policies that placed it well to the left of mainstream social democracy elsewhere; as soon as they gained power, of course, it was a rather different story... Indeed, you can't imagine Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams arranging death squads! |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 30, 2014 12:29:17 GMT
An interesting historical detail is that the PSOE in opposition used rhetoric and proposed policies that placed it well to the left of mainstream social democracy elsewhere; as soon as they gained power, of course, it was a rather different story... Indeed, you can't imagine Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams arranging death squads! Except for Dr Owen and his acolytes, obviously  |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 30, 2014 13:16:18 GMT
Indeed, you can't imagine Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams arranging death squads! Except for Dr Owen and his acolytes, obviously "No murder= no clawet, capeesh?" said Roy. |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 30, 2014 23:36:22 GMT
A party that combines the worst of the greens, labour and ukip. Really the lowest of all common denominators. If Spain votes for this lot of unemployed hippies, academics and "creatives" to run the country then they should take an extra long siesta. The rise of parties like this in Greece and Spain is deeply worrying for the eurozone. They are threatening to turn these countries into even more of a joke than they already are. Itll be like living next to Venezuela. Policies Vote on leaving NATO Defaulting on Spanish debt Reducing VAT on "cultural" events Forced nationalisation of private hospitals 35 hours maximum working week Retirement age of 60 In other words - they are simply idiots. I don't say things like that lightly. Whereas I think they are the sort of party I would love to vote for - great to see the way that Spain is rejecting neo-liberalism. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 0:53:44 GMT
A party that combines the worst of the greens, labour and ukip. Really the lowest of all common denominators. If Spain votes for this lot of unemployed hippies, academics and "creatives" to run the country then they should take an extra long siesta. The rise of parties like this in Greece and Spain is deeply worrying for the eurozone. They are threatening to turn these countries into even more of a joke than they already are. Itll be like living next to Venezuela. Policies Vote on leaving NATO Defaulting on Spanish debt Reducing VAT on "cultural" events Forced nationalisation of private hospitals 35 hours maximum working week Retirement age of 60 In other words - they are simply idiots. I don't say things like that lightly. Whereas I think they are the sort of party I would love to vote for - great to see the way that Spain is rejecting neo-liberalism. You think default on debts is the way forward? I guess its one way of making socialism affordable! |
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Post by johnloony on Dec 1, 2014 2:04:52 GMT
A party that combines the worst of the greens, labour and ukip. Really the lowest of all common denominators. If Spain votes for this lot of unemployed hippies, academics and "creatives" to run the country then they should take an extra long siesta. The rise of parties like this in Greece and Spain is deeply worrying for the eurozone. They are threatening to turn these countries into even more of a joke than they already are. Itll be like living next to Venezuela. Policies Vote on leaving NATO Defaulting on Spanish debt Reducing VAT on "cultural" events Forced nationalisation of private hospitals 35 hours maximum working week Retirement age of 60 In other words - they are simply idiots. I don't say things like that lightly. I must have missed this thread before, so I'm a bit late in noticing this. I was going to ask ¿Qué el f*ck is "Podemos"? but it would appear you have answered my question already.  |
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 1, 2014 20:50:55 GMT
A party that combines the worst of the greens, labour and ukip. Really the lowest of all common denominators. If Spain votes for this lot of unemployed hippies, academics and "creatives" to run the country then they should take an extra long siesta. The rise of parties like this in Greece and Spain is deeply worrying for the eurozone. They are threatening to turn these countries into even more of a joke than they already are. Itll be like living next to Venezuela. Policies Vote on leaving NATO Defaulting on Spanish debt Reducing VAT on "cultural" events Forced nationalisation of private hospitals 35 hours maximum working week Retirement age of 60 In other words - they are simply idiots. I don't say things like that lightly. The only thing on that list that could reasonably be said to be idiotic is the retirement age (presuming, of course, that the existing Spanish retirement age isn't below 60). All the others go against your ideology, but are perfectly feasible policies from a broadly left-wing worldview. |
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 1, 2014 21:31:46 GMT
The only thing on that list that could reasonably be said to be idiotic is the retirement age (presuming, of course, that the existing Spanish retirement age isn't below 60). All the others go against your ideology, but are perfectly feasible policies from a broadly left-wing worldview. Defaulting on debt is a reasonable left wing view?? Defaulting on debt is a reasonable approach to debts which you view as unpayable. Which is presumably how Posdemos views the Spanish government's current debts. |
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 1, 2014 22:23:16 GMT
However, does that not lead to a lack of credibility on economic matters? Would that not lead to serious consequences on the international and domestic economic markets? Perhaps, perhaps not. The consequences depend a lot on the detail. If the debts are owed mostly to large institutions that are capable of writing it off, then the consequences to markets would be fairly minimal. If they aren't, then the consequences could be more significant. Spain wouldn't be the first government that has defaulted on its debts, and it almost certainly wouldn't be the last. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Dec 1, 2014 23:32:43 GMT
However, does that not lead to a lack of credibility on economic matters? Would that not lead to serious consequences on the international and domestic economic markets? Perhaps, perhaps not. The consequences depend a lot on the detail. If the debts are owed mostly to large institutions that are capable of writing it off, then the consequences to markets would be fairly minimal. If they aren't, then the consequences could be more significant. Spain wouldn't be the first government that has defaulted on its debts, and it almost certainly wouldn't be the last. I don't think it works like that. Just because you can afford to write off the debts, doesn't mean you're going to react favourably. Defaulting would make Spain a lot of enemies amongst its creditors and make it much more difficult for it to access the bond markets in future. Globalisation makes it harder and harder to get away with defaulting. |
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 1, 2014 23:49:09 GMT
Perhaps, perhaps not. The consequences depend a lot on the detail. If the debts are owed mostly to large institutions that are capable of writing it off, then the consequences to markets would be fairly minimal. If they aren't, then the consequences could be more significant. Spain wouldn't be the first government that has defaulted on its debts, and it almost certainly wouldn't be the last. I don't think it works like that. Just because you can afford to write off the debts, doesn't mean you're going to react favourably. Defaulting would make Spain a lot of enemies amongst its creditors and make it much more difficult for it to access the bond markets in future. Globalisation makes it harder and harder to get away with defaulting. That's not really related to the point I was answering. Yes, if Spain defaults they would find it more difficult to borrow in the future. But that doesn't necessarily mean a significant effects on the markets - unless the default has a significant effect on the creditors, it won't affect anybody else's ability to borrow. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Dec 2, 2014 0:04:35 GMT
If Podemos came to power and tried to implement such things, the international markets (and financial institutions and so on) would crush Spain like a bug. Like it or not, the game is rigged.
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