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Post by Merseymike on Nov 19, 2014 19:30:04 GMT
I take it that you will be perfectly happy if Italy decide they could do without your presence, carlton.....
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tomc
Conservative
Posts: 838
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Post by tomc on Nov 19, 2014 19:31:47 GMT
So if your party achieves its goal of the UK leaving the EU, you think that we should expel all existing EU migrants (the vast majority of whom are gainfully employed and contributing to our economy)? Or am I misreading your opinion? You are being confused........easy to do in superheated discussions. My sole point is that what I regard as guest workers should never to regarded as new British citizens and permanent residents with rights to bring in their entire extended families. The deal should be along the lines of 'You look to be a decent sort with skills we actually want AT PRESENT. Please come and work and if you like us and we like you we might offer you citizenship, all our benefits and certain closely defined rights to import a limited number of family members, when we decide to do so. If you become unemployed, disruptive or a cost to us we shall ask you to go. If economics change and we have a lot of citizens unemployed we may also ask you to go.' Its all our call. Outside the EU rules, there are no rights to come or to stay. How you regard them is neither here nor there, EU migrants are in fact citizens of the same polity as you or I who came here on the understanding, given them by an elected British Government that there would not be a time limit on their stay. In the meantime they will have interrupted careers at home and spent time and effort learning a language and perhaps working for qualifications of little use in their own countries. The analogy with a newly independent Scotland is actually a good one.
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 19, 2014 19:36:59 GMT
You are being confused........easy to do in superheated discussions. My sole point is that what I regard as guest workers should never to regarded as new British citizens and permanent residents with rights to bring in their entire extended families. The deal should be along the lines of 'You look to be a decent sort with skills we actually want AT PRESENT. Please come and work and if you like us and we like you we might offer you citizenship, all our benefits and certain closely defined rights to import a limited number of family members, when we decide to do so. If you become unemployed, disruptive or a cost to us we shall ask you to go. If economics change and we have a lot of citizens unemployed we may also ask you to go.' Its all our call. Outside the EU rules, there are no rights to come or to stay. How you regard them is neither here nor there, EU migrants are in fact citizens of the same polity as you or I who came here on the understanding, given them by an elected British Government that there would not be a time limit on their stay. In the meantime they will have interrupted careers at home and spent time and effort learning a language and perhaps working for qualifications of little use in their own countries. The analogy with a newly independent Scotland is actually a good one. Yes. Well aware of all that which is why I voted No in the EU Referendum and dearly want us to leave asap.
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tomc
Conservative
Posts: 838
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Post by tomc on Nov 19, 2014 19:47:09 GMT
I take it that you will be perfectly happy if Italy decide they could do without your presence, carlton..... Much of the electorate is perfectly comfortable with their half baked ideas until you tie them down to the very first level of detail. At that point the supposed consensus vanishes like snaw aff a dyke. Personally, I would really like the government to impose a one day curfew - or to put it another way a wild cat strike - on and by all immigrants. In the same way as I was hoping that in the event of a Yes Vote the rUK government would put toll roads at Gretna and stop buying our overpriced windy electric, I am also hoping that in the event of the UK ever restricting EU immigration the EU responds by upping the ante. Which would make no difference to anyone in this country since very few poor Britons move to other EU nations for work and the skilled or retired emigrants have some choice of where to move in the world.
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Post by Devonian on Nov 19, 2014 20:56:21 GMT
The Conservatives have now made a second internet attack ad against Mark Reckless
I think once we get past New Year and into the run up to the General Election we should start a thread just for this type of ad. I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of them.
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Post by BossMan on Nov 19, 2014 22:22:59 GMT
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 20, 2014 0:15:28 GMT
Are we having a prediction competition for Rochester & Strood?
My prediction would be: UKIP 50.5%, Con 27.5%, Lab 17%, Green 2%, LD 2%, Others 1%.
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 20, 2014 0:15:52 GMT
I take it that you will be perfectly happy if Italy decide they could do without your presence, carlton..... Right on cue another 5th Form interjection "I take it you will be perfectly happy with..............?" Oh dear oh dear. Where do they make the brains of you people ............at a plastics factory in Taiwan? No, I wouldn't be happy.......shock horror and surprise. Tedious person. Firstly they won't, because I am not a threat, don't sponge on benefits, don't take a job from an Italian and add a useful sum inwards to the GDP. I and thousands of other British expats add a lot of value to the Italian economy at very little cost to them. Oh..........And I am coming back to Blighty full time to aid the UKIP vote in Sheffield.....so I don't really care anyway.
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 20, 2014 2:01:15 GMT
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 20, 2014 11:19:35 GMT
Rather a lot of evidence to support one thinks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 11:56:40 GMT
The problem in dealing with UKIP and the SNP are they deny reality, the number of European migrants in the UK is almost exactly balanced by the number of Britons living elsewhere in the EU, the number claiming benefits is also on par, but UKIP would rather believe the lies peddled by the right just as the SNP are quite happy to blame Engerland.
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Post by Devonian on Nov 20, 2014 15:48:01 GMT
Talking about snobbery and insulting UKIP voters Emily Thornberry just sent this tweet
What's the message supposed to be from this tweet? "My goodness how comically vulgar!" perhaps?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 20, 2014 16:01:58 GMT
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Post by Devonian on Nov 20, 2014 16:03:10 GMT
There's been a bit of reaction to Thornberry's tweet order-order.com/2014/11/20/islington-mps-rochester-culture-shock/Guido Fawkes @guidofawkes · 11m 11 minutes ago A Labour spokesperson says "what's the problem?" when asked about this tweet: Guido Fawkes @guidofawkes · 4m 4 minutes ago Guido: "Do you think it is snobbish?" @labourpress: "Why is it snobbish?" #WhiteVanGate
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Nov 20, 2014 16:04:09 GMT
A reminder that This Week is a by election special. Do we have an expected declaration time?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 20, 2014 16:12:16 GMT
You couldn't make it up really
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 20, 2014 16:23:08 GMT
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Post by mrhell on Nov 20, 2014 16:34:28 GMT
So we've now got bizarre tweets from Emily Thornberry and Mark Reckless turning into "send em back".
Britain First have endorsed Mark Reckless.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Nov 20, 2014 16:35:50 GMT
Breweries haven't really been a key Tory interest since the Beerage. What an odd thing for Oborne to remark upon.
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 20, 2014 16:37:56 GMT
Labour's general election strategy team must be absolutely fuming at the Emily Thornberry tweet mocking white van man and his English flags. It'll cost them votes in crucial marginals, there can't be much doubt of that. And amazingly it's still up there for all to see.
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