Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 9:09:26 GMT
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jul 5, 2014 10:30:59 GMT
Because the deputy wasn't elected?
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Jul 5, 2014 11:10:14 GMT
Because strangely enough we have a little thing in this country called the rule of law. I know it is damn inconvenient from time to time but for some reason I prefer it to the alternative. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 5, 2014 11:14:23 GMT
Because the deputy wasn't elected? I think the real point is that hardly anybody cares? |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 5, 2014 11:33:32 GMT
This fiasco points again to the fact that the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill was very poorly scrutinised when it was going through Parliament. The scandal over perfectly good candidates being ruled ineligible because of an unduly restrictive disqualification regime was caused by the same failure, but at least that clause was actually debated. The arrangements for filling a vacancy in the office of Police and Crime Commissioner were never even debated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 12:14:52 GMT
Because strangely enough we have a little thing in this country called the rule of law. I know it is damn inconvenient from time to time but for some reason I prefer it to the alternative. and if the govt can see how damn stupid a 35 day rule is they can change that easy enough. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 12:16:34 GMT
This fiasco points again to the fact that the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill was very poorly scrutinised when it was going through Parliament. The scandal over perfectly good candidates being ruled ineligible because of an unduly restrictive disqualification regime was caused by the same failure, but at least that clause was actually debated. The arrangements for filling a vacancy in the office of Police and Crime Commissioner were never even debated. It show how the mother of parliaments fails now in their primary duty. Because of the whipping system we just get legislation nodded through and the HOL is ineffective as a proper second chamber |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Jul 5, 2014 12:44:59 GMT
Because strangely enough we have a little thing in this country called the rule of law. I know it is damn inconvenient from time to time but for some reason I prefer it to the alternative. and if the govt can see how damn stupid a 35 day rule is they can change that easy enough. It isn't a rule it is statute law. Primary legislation is required to change it. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Jul 5, 2014 12:47:30 GMT
This fiasco points again to the fact that the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill was very poorly scrutinised when it was going through Parliament. The scandal over perfectly good candidates being ruled ineligible because of an unduly restrictive disqualification regime was caused by the same failure, but at least that clause was actually debated. The arrangements for filling a vacancy in the office of Police and Crime Commissioner were never even debated. It is certainly hard to disagree with the contention that Parliament frequently fails to scrutinise legislation adequately but this has been the case for some time now. The routine use of programme motions brought in by the Blair government is a significant factor here. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 5, 2014 12:58:47 GMT
This fiasco points again to the fact that the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill was very poorly scrutinised when it was going through Parliament. The scandal over perfectly good candidates being ruled ineligible because of an unduly restrictive disqualification regime was caused by the same failure, but at least that clause was actually debated. The arrangements for filling a vacancy in the office of Police and Crime Commissioner were never even debated. It is certainly hard to disagree with the contention that Parliament frequently fails to scrutinise legislation adequately but this has been the case for some time now. The routine use of programme motions brought in by the Blair government is a significant factor here. Both the government and the opposition are to blame for the lack of scrutiny of a Bill. And while it was the Blair government that introduced programme motions, they were almost inevitable when the then opposition adopted the tactic of delaying Bills by prolonged debating of minor amendments. There was one MP who made a very eloquent maiden speech opposing Programme Motions; anyone know what happened to him? Surely if he ever had the opportunity he would have wanted to put a stop to it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 19:25:05 GMT
Polling day is Thursday 21 August 2014
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Post by greatkingrat on Jul 5, 2014 20:54:39 GMT
This fiasco points again to the fact that the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill was very poorly scrutinised when it was going through Parliament. The scandal over perfectly good candidates being ruled ineligible because of an unduly restrictive disqualification regime was caused by the same failure, but at least that clause was actually debated. The arrangements for filling a vacancy in the office of Police and Crime Commissioner were never even debated. I assume you are referring to the failure of the Labour Party, whose shadow minister said that they fully supported the disqualification regime? Had the Labour Party submitted any amendments about the procedure for filling vacancies they would have been discussed, however none were submitted in either the Commons or Lords. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jul 5, 2014 21:37:29 GMT
Because the deputy wasn't elected? I think the real point is that hardly anybody cares? No, his point was that the deputy is Labour, therefore risking a non-Labour winner of the by-election is not desirable. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jul 5, 2014 21:47:38 GMT
I think the real point is that hardly anybody cares? No, his point was that the deputy is Labour, therefore risking a non-Labour winner of the by-election is not desirable. Even with the risible turnout this by-election is going to get, that's a negligible risk, as you (and indeed Ian) well know. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jul 5, 2014 21:52:37 GMT
I know, but as you well know, Ian is an idiot and incapable of logical thought.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jul 5, 2014 22:35:45 GMT
I fail to see how your sterling efforts to misrepresent his comments do anything to establish this.
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Post by johnloony on Jul 6, 2014 4:37:35 GMT
Polling day is Thursday 21 August 2014 Which is substantially more than 35 days after Mr Jones's death anyway. |
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Post by marksenior on Jul 6, 2014 9:00:46 GMT
Polling day is Thursday 21 August 2014 Which is substantially more than 35 days after Mr Jones's death anyway. The law was so badly drafted ( and voted into effect ) that it is unclear whether the 35 days are working days and include or exclude bank holidays . |
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Post by middleenglander on Jul 6, 2014 9:01:57 GMT
Polling day is Thursday 21 August 2014 Which is substantially more than 35 days after Mr Jones's death anyway. The 35 days within the legislation is "working" days not "calendar" days. It excludes weekends and bank holidays, thereby taking some account of Christmas, New Year, Easter etc. In fact 35 working days gives a minimum of 7 weeks when as in this case there are no intervening bank holidays. Death sadly occurred on Tuesday 1st July with 7 weeks expiring on Tuesday 19th August. However I can see lee-way in the clock starting the day after death and ending the day before the election. The 35 working days is perfectly normal for local council elections with the clock stating when 2 electors make the request following the publication of the Notice of Vacancy. In normal circumstances 7 weeks give plenty of time for the funeral arrangements before the formal commemcement of the election by calling for nominations and some 3 or 4 vweeks of campaigning. I can see the democratic need to move quickly in the case of Police & Crime Commissioners as there are no other elected person to deputise. The Deputy PCC is appointed by the PCC following his election. I am pretty certain in the case of ours the general public had no idea who the prospective deputy was or indeed that there would be one. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 9:23:33 GMT
you think people knew who the actual PPC was ?
It is disgusting that within 4 hours of Bob's death they had to discuss how to elect his replacement.
There is no chance of anyone else but Labour winning this BTW but even if an MP dies there is a choice on how quick or not a by election is called.
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