peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473 
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Post by peterl on Nov 21, 2018 13:20:25 GMT
Interesting mentiion of hereditary by elections in the BBC's This Week in Parliament column.
Friday
"Unusually, in the Moses Room (the Lordly equivalent of Westminster Hall) the committee stage of Bruce Grocott's much-filibustered House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill will be taken.
The bill has run into stiff resistance from Conservative peers Lord Caithness and Lord Trefgarne - but because votes are not held in Moses Room debates, proceedings cannot be delayed by forcing vote after vote.
This is a virtuoso manoeuvre by the bill's proposer, but, even so, his bill stands little chance of becoming law. "
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Post by greatkingrat on Nov 22, 2018 12:07:45 GMT
New byelection coming up for a Conservative hereditary - Lord Skelmersdale has died aged 73. There must be worse places for a peerage to be named for, but I can't think of one. There is a Baron Merthyr and a Baron Kilmarnock. |
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Post by finsobruce on Nov 22, 2018 13:55:47 GMT
There must be worse places for a peerage to be named for, but I can't think of one. There is a Baron Merthyr and a Baron Kilmarnock. Baron Hardup will be making his customary appearances at pantomime this year. |
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Post by yellowperil on Nov 22, 2018 14:40:19 GMT
There is a Baron Merthyr and a Baron Kilmarnock. Baron Hardup will be making his customary appearances at pantomime this year. done that, been him, also Baron Stoneybroke, which sounds much more authentic. |
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,846
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Post by Crimson King on Nov 22, 2018 17:07:34 GMT
oh no it doesn’t
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 22, 2018 18:02:24 GMT
Have Bilston and Darlaston been used?
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Post by AdminSTB on Nov 22, 2018 18:47:01 GMT
Have Bilston and Darlaston been used? Bilston has. Dennis Turner former MP for Wolverhampton, SE took the title Baron Bilston. Darlaston has not been used, but Darlo has its charms. Tipton, however. |
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,748
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Post by Chris from Brum on Nov 22, 2018 21:11:14 GMT
WS Gilbert was good at coming up with fake titles, the Earl of Tololler and Viscount Mountararat being two. Lord Lowergornal was one he missed, however.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 23, 2018 12:00:39 GMT
Have Bilston and Darlaston been used? Bilston has. Dennis Turner former MP for Wolverhampton, SE took the title Baron Bilston. Darlaston has not been used, but Darlo has its charms.Tipton, however. Well hidden. Well hidden. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 29, 2018 23:42:26 GMT
Lord Carrington wins the byelection for a Crossbench hereditary peer caused by the retirement of Lord Northbourne. Possibly setting a record for the reappearance of the same peerage in the House's membership since 1999. www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-information-office/2018/Result-by-election-28-11-18.pdfFirst prefs: Lord Carrington 11 Lord Ravensdale 8 Earl of Eldon 3 Lord Aldington 2 Duke of Hamilton and Brandon 2 Lord Meston 2 Viscount Powerscourt 1 Earl of Albemarle, Lord Bridges, Earl of Limerick and Lord Southampton did not get any first preference votes |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
Member is Online
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Post by maxque on Nov 30, 2018 0:14:50 GMT
Thankfully the URSS is dead now, he won't be able to deport anyone there for execution.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 30, 2018 0:33:54 GMT
Lord Carrington wins the byelection for a Crossbench hereditary peer caused by the retirement of Lord Northbourne. Possibly setting a record for the reappearance of the same peerage in the House's membership since 1999. www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-information-office/2018/Result-by-election-28-11-18.pdfFirst prefs: Lord Carrington 11 Lord Ravensdale 8 Earl of Eldon 3 Lord Aldington 2 Duke of Hamilton and Brandon 2 Lord Meston 2 Viscount Powerscourt 1 Earl of Albemarle, Lord Bridges, Earl of Limerick and Lord Southampton did not get any first preference votes I note that the Carrington family have defected from Conservative to Crossbench. Perhaps unsurprising in view of the late 6th Baron's recorded views. At least two Irish titles amongst those standing (presumably peers in the UK peerage, but it still looks odd.) And Albemarle is I believe a Norman title (Aumale) originally so I suppose that's even odder. |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Nov 30, 2018 0:55:37 GMT
Lord Carrington wins the byelection for a Crossbench hereditary peer caused by the retirement of Lord Northbourne. Possibly setting a record for the reappearance of the same peerage in the House's membership since 1999. www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-information-office/2018/Result-by-election-28-11-18.pdfFirst prefs: Lord Carrington 11 Lord Ravensdale 8 Earl of Eldon 3 Lord Aldington 2 Duke of Hamilton and Brandon 2 Lord Meston 2 Viscount Powerscourt 1 Earl of Albemarle, Lord Bridges, Earl of Limerick and Lord Southampton did not get any first preference votes I note that the Carrington family have defected from Conservative to Crossbench. Perhaps unsurprising in view of the late 6th Baron's recorded views. At least two Irish titles amongst those standing (presumably peers in the UK peerage, but it still looks odd.) And Albemarle is I believe a Norman title (Aumale) originally so I suppose that's even odder. Being cynical, you don’t have to defect; there are more hereditary’s sitting as Crossbenchers so the opportunity to get elected is probably statistically greater. I remember the statement Lord Oaksey submitted when he was elected, and it was indistinguishable from UKIP’s then positions. Incidentally, I can’t quickly find which is the older title, but Carrington is a Peerage in both the UK and Irish peerage. In respect of the others, I seem to recall one of those five minute fillers on BBC Parliament saying all Irish Peers were granted UK peerages at the time of Irish independence if they didn’t already hold dual titles. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 30, 2018 8:32:05 GMT
I note that the Carrington family have defected from Conservative to Crossbench. Perhaps unsurprising in view of the late 6th Baron's recorded views. At least two Irish titles amongst those standing (presumably peers in the UK peerage, but it still looks odd.) And Albemarle is I believe a Norman title (Aumale) originally so I suppose that's even odder. Being cynical, you don’t have to defect; there are more hereditary’s sitting as Crossbenchers so the opportunity to get elected is probably statistically greater. I remember the statement Lord Oaksey submitted when he was elected, and it was indistinguishable from UKIP’s then positions. Incidentally, I can’t quickly find which is the older title, but Carrington is a Peerage in both the UK and Irish peerage. In respect of the others, I seem to recall one of those five minute fillers on BBC Parliament saying all Irish Peers were granted UK peerages at the time of Irish independence if they didn’t already hold dual titles. Carrington wasn't one of my Irish examples! My two were Limerick and Powerscourt (Powersourt House has some of the finest gardens I've ever seen and is at Enniskerry, Co Wicklow, a bus ride from Dublin - I walked it, but I was a lot younger). |
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Post by timrollpickering on Dec 1, 2018 8:21:27 GMT
And Albemarle is I believe a Norman title (Aumale) originally so I suppose that's even odder. Yet the Lords presumably never refers to the Prince of Waterloo, Duke of Ciudad Rodrigo and of Victoria. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Dec 1, 2018 8:29:31 GMT
In respect of the others, I seem to recall one of those five minute fillers on BBC Parliament saying all Irish Peers were granted UK peerages at the time of Irish independence if they didn't already hold dual titles. Not true at all. The Irish peerage fell into a limbo - the existing representative peers continued to sit (the last one died in 1961) but no new elections were held and the posts that ran the elections were abolished. Irish peers continued to be eligible to sit in the Commons and some still did. Various peers petitioned for the restoration of their rights to elect representative peers and there was a proposal to admit some or all in the Irish peerage to the Lords in the Peerage Act 1963 (all Scottish peers were admitted). All failed and the Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1971 explicitly repealed the relevant parts of the Act of Union. |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Dec 1, 2018 8:47:11 GMT
In respect of the others, I seem to recall one of those five minute fillers on BBC Parliament saying all Irish Peers were granted UK peerages at the time of Irish independence if they didn't already hold dual titles. Not true at all. The Irish peerage fell into a limbo - the existing representative peers continued to sit (the last one died in 1961) but no new elections were held and the posts that ran the elections were abolished. Irish peers continued to be eligible to sit in the Commons and some still did. Various peers petitioned for the restoration of their rights to elect representative peers and there was a proposal to admit some or all in the Irish peerage to the Lords in the Peerage Act 1963 (all Scottish peers were admitted). All failed and the Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1971 explicitly repealed the relevant parts of the Act of Union. No, sorry, I wasn’t meaning sitting in the Lords (although pre-1998 it would have impacted), I meant keeping their titles. Hence on the official documents relating to this by-election those whose peerages were initially Irish have the title in italics and brackets after their title in the UK peerage. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Dec 1, 2018 9:05:54 GMT
Oh there are some, either through explicit creation or because of inheritance at different points, but far from all. The Irish peerage remains a legal grant of the sovereign that was never transferred to what is now the Republic (and remember that "Irish independence" was a process not an event).
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Post by greatkingrat on Dec 1, 2018 9:11:02 GMT
There are some, like the Earl of Antrim, whose (Irish) title refers to a place in the UK, but were not given a UK peerage.
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Post by timrollpickering on Dec 1, 2018 9:40:14 GMT
Antrim is of course in Northern Ireland. But there are certainly some with no Irish connection whatsoever created entirely to give a title without putting a person into the Lords. The very last Irish peerage to be created was Baron Curzon of Kedleston for the new Viceroy of India in 1898 (his later peerages were created in the UK peerage, including Baron Ravensdale now held by his great grandson who has appeared in these elections). Kedleston is a village in Debyshire.
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