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Post by manchesterman on Feb 18, 2022 22:24:04 GMT
Shock defeat for Alistair Carmichael!
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Post by relique on Feb 20, 2022 18:58:27 GMT
I did a map with a 9 constituency - eurozone to "democratically" elect 9 board members of the ECB. framacarte.org/fr/map/eurozone-9-circonscriptions_119198#4/52.03/22.68Constituencies: 1 (red): Germany south-west (North Rhine Westphalia, Baden-Wurttemberg, Hesse, Rhineland-Palatinate, Saar-Land) 2 (yellow): Netherlands, Finland, Germany north (Lower Saxony, Schleswig-Holstein, Hamburg, Bremen) 3 (black): Germany east (Bavaria, Saxony, Berlin, Brandenburg, Saxony-Anhalt, Thuringia, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern), Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia 4 (blue): France North and east (Normandy, Hauts-de-France, Grand Est, Bourgogne-Franche-Comté), Belgium, Luxemburg, Ireland 5 (pink): France West and Center (Île-de-France, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, Nouvelle Aquitaine, Pays de la Loire, Bretagne, Centre and oversees) 6 (dark blue): Spain east (Catalonia, Valencia, Castilla-La Mancha, Murcia, Aragon, Balearic Islands), France south (Occitanie, Provence Alpes Côte d'Azur, Corse), Italy west (Liguria, Toscana, Sardegna) 7 (purple): Spain west (Andalusia, Madrid, Galicia, Castile and Leon, Canary Islands, Basque Country, Extremadura, Asturias, Navarre, Cantabria, La Rioja, Melilla, Ceuta), Portugal 8 (brown): Italy north (Lombardia, Veneto, Emilia-Romagna, Piemonte, Friuli Venezia Giulia, Trentino - Alta Adige, Valle d'Aosta), Austria, Slovenia 9 (green): Italy south (Lazio, Campania, Sicilia, Puglia, Calabria, Marche, Abruzzo, Umbria, Basilicata, Molise), Greece, Cyprus, Malta 38 million people on average. All constituencies between 34,8 and 40,8. There would probably be 4 ortho-liberal (germany-inspired) board members (the three germany constituencies and maybe northern italy with Austria and Slovenia), one that is split (northern France with Belgium, Luxemburg and Ireland with France at 17.5 million, Belgium 11.5, Ireland at 5) but maybe going toward more state-interventionism (wallonia would help a french-inspired candidate). The three mediterranean constituencies and the french one would get more state-interventionism types I guess.
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Post by John Chanin on Feb 20, 2022 19:20:12 GMT
Reminds me of a science fiction story I read once in which representatives were elected by equal areas. So you had a billion people in India with 1 rep, and a large chunk of the south Pacific with a population of a couple of hundred with 1 rep. As far as I remember the story failed to account for Antarctica……
I rather like the idea of Ireland being part of France….MacRon would go down well.
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Post by relique on Feb 20, 2022 19:27:57 GMT
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Dalek
Conservative
Aldershot and Glasgow Kelvingrove
Posts: 110
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Post by Dalek on Jul 5, 2022 20:06:14 GMT
When was the last time a seat in the Westminster Parliament had two (or more, I suppose) disconnected parts? Combined Universities? The 1974-83 boundaries (Second Periodical Review) contained constituencies with detached parts. I count seven: In England: Don Valley Yarmouth In Wales: East Flintshire Monmouth In Scotland: Clackmannan and East Stirlingshire East Dunbartonshire Stirling, Falkirk and Grangemouth Glasgow Pollok (1983 to 1992) was the last mainland constituency in two parts. Glasgow Cathcart and Glasgow Govan converged cutting Pollokshields/ Shawlands off from the Pollok estate.
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 909
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Post by piperdave on Jul 6, 2022 12:27:04 GMT
The 1974-83 boundaries (Second Periodical Review) contained constituencies with detached parts. I count seven: In England: Don Valley Yarmouth In Wales: East Flintshire Monmouth In Scotland: Clackmannan and East Stirlingshire East Dunbartonshire Stirling, Falkirk and Grangemouth Glasgow Pollok (1983 to 1992) was the last mainland constituency in two parts. Glasgow Cathcart and Glasgow Govan converged cutting Pollokshields/ Shawlands off from the Pollok estate. Midlothian (1974-83) also appears to have had a small detached part at Newhailes next to Musselburgh
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Post by johnloony on Jul 6, 2022 12:42:33 GMT
The 1974-83 boundaries (Second Periodical Review) contained constituencies with detached parts. I count seven: In England: Don Valley Yarmouth In Wales: East Flintshire Monmouth In Scotland: Clackmannan and East Stirlingshire East Dunbartonshire Stirling, Falkirk and Grangemouth Glasgow Pollok (1983 to 1992) was the last mainland constituency in two parts. Glasgow Cathcart and Glasgow Govan converged cutting Pollokshields/ Shawlands off from the Pollok estate. That description of Pollok doesn’t match the map in the 1987 TGttHoC. P.S. I found this, which has a bottleneck but not an exclave (although it’s not entirely reliable, because it also has a C in “Pollock”: www.bcomm-scotland.independent.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Glasgow_pollock_0.pdf
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jul 6, 2022 13:57:07 GMT
Glasgow Pollok (1983 to 1992) was the last mainland constituency in two parts. Glasgow Cathcart and Glasgow Govan converged cutting Pollokshields/ Shawlands off from the Pollok estate. That description of Pollok doesn’t match the map in the 1987 TGttHoC. P.S. I found this, which has a bottleneck but not an exclave (although it’s not entirely reliable, because it also has a C in “Pollock”: www.bcomm-scotland.independent.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Glasgow_pollock_0.pdfThat#'s the 1974-83 boundaries
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Post by islington on Jul 6, 2022 14:45:55 GMT
Here you go. A masterpiece of the boundary-drawer's art. It's almost as good as Glasgow (Blackfriars and Hutchesontown) from the 1885 review.
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Post by islington on Jul 6, 2022 15:05:49 GMT
Here it is: the Blackfriars and Hutchesontown division of Glasgow, created 1885 and abolished 1918. Two chunks of the city on different sides of the river, artfully arranged so that only for a tiny distance do the two riverfronts actually face each other. Population 71744.
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Post by johnloony on Jul 6, 2022 15:10:02 GMT
Here you go. A masterpiece of the boundary-drawer's art. It's almost as good as Glasgow (Blackfriars and Hutchesontown) from the 1885 review.
That looks like four corners meeting at an X-junction (?) so they question of whether the constituency had a disjointed part is a philosophical question as much as it is a geographical question.
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jul 6, 2022 15:13:34 GMT
The 1974-83 boundaries (Second Periodical Review) contained constituencies with detached parts. I count seven: In England: Don Valley Yarmouth In Wales: East Flintshire Monmouth In Scotland: Clackmannan and East Stirlingshire East Dunbartonshire Stirling, Falkirk and Grangemouth Glasgow Pollok (1983 to 1992) was the last mainland constituency in two parts. Glasgow Cathcart and Glasgow Govan converged cutting Pollokshields/ Shawlands off from the Pollok estate.
I consider the occasional non-contiguous constituency vastly preferable to having a large number of cross-border seats because of the knock-on effect of another cross-border seat because of the knock-on effect of another one, and so on.
Also, there are areas where ward boundaries - typically one very large ward almost surrounding a number of smaller wards - make it antagonisingly difficult to draw whole seats. In the some places the shape and population size lend themselves perfectly to being exclaves.
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Post by bjornhattan on Jul 6, 2022 15:25:47 GMT
Glasgow Pollok (1983 to 1992) was the last mainland constituency in two parts. Glasgow Cathcart and Glasgow Govan converged cutting Pollokshields/ Shawlands off from the Pollok estate.
I consider the occasional non-contiguous constituency vastly preferable to having a large number of cross-border seats because of the knock-on effect of another cross-border seat because of the knock-on effect of another one, and so on.
Also, there are areas where ward boundaries - typically one very large ward almost surrounding a number of smaller wards - make it antagonisingly difficult to draw whole seats. In the some places the shape and population size lend themselves perfectly to being exclaves.
I seem to recall that pairing Cramlington with Gosforth leads to a fairly nice pattern of constituencies across that part of the North East and is less disruptive than the Commission's initial proposals. The two communities have close ties, are a fairly cohesive unit (essentially being Newcastle's northern suburbs) - but due to ward boundaries are separated by about 100 metres of dual carriageway and a roundabout. While I don't think exclaves should be used with impunity, there are clearly cases like this where they could improve boundaries - and are seats with them really that much worse than the current Lancaster and Fleetwood?
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Post by aargauer on Jul 6, 2022 19:34:38 GMT
I consider the occasional non-contiguous constituency vastly preferable to having a large number of cross-border seats because of the knock-on effect of another cross-border seat because of the knock-on effect of another one, and so on.
Also, there are areas where ward boundaries - typically one very large ward almost surrounding a number of smaller wards - make it antagonisingly difficult to draw whole seats. In the some places the shape and population size lend themselves perfectly to being exclaves.
I seem to recall that pairing Cramlington with Gosforth leads to a fairly nice pattern of constituencies across that part of the North East and is less disruptive than the Commission's initial proposals. The two communities have close ties, are a fairly cohesive unit (essentially being Newcastle's northern suburbs) - but due to ward boundaries are separated by about 100 metres of dual carriageway and a roundabout. While I don't think exclaves should be used with impunity, there are clearly cases like this where they could improve boundaries - and are seats with them really that much worse than the current Lancaster and Fleetwood? Cramlington and Gosforth? ? You have to be kidding me. Affluent suburb paired with commuter town with which it has no links. I grew up very close to the Jesmond / Gosforth boundary have barely ever been to Cramlington.
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Post by bjornhattan on Jul 6, 2022 20:31:50 GMT
I seem to recall that pairing Cramlington with Gosforth leads to a fairly nice pattern of constituencies across that part of the North East and is less disruptive than the Commission's initial proposals. The two communities have close ties, are a fairly cohesive unit (essentially being Newcastle's northern suburbs) - but due to ward boundaries are separated by about 100 metres of dual carriageway and a roundabout. While I don't think exclaves should be used with impunity, there are clearly cases like this where they could improve boundaries - and are seats with them really that much worse than the current Lancaster and Fleetwood? Cramlington and Gosforth? ? You have to be kidding me. Affluent suburb paired with commuter town with which it has no links. I grew up very close to the Jesmond / Gosforth boundary have barely ever been to Cramlington. Cramlington doesn't really fit nicely with any of its neighbours. At the moment it's combined with Blyth in a fairly coherent, but very polarised seat. The Commission have put it with Whitley Bay (which isn't a terrible fit but the two are very different in character have links between them are poor). In theory the area around Killingworth would probably be the best fit, but parts of Gosforth would work well too. I should point out that I had wards like Castle and Parklands in mind, rather than the much more urban area where you grew up! In terms of transport the two have strong links through the A1 and Great North Road, and very regular buses such as the X8/X9/X10/X11 services. Very little of this traffic goes via North Tyneside on the way, which is one reason why I think non-contiguity here can be justified - the ties are much more directly between (North) Gosforth and Cramlington.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jul 6, 2022 20:58:47 GMT
Looks like you'd need to use Weetslade ward from North Tyneside for the numbers to work anyway
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jul 6, 2022 23:48:27 GMT
Looks like you'd need to use Weetslade ward from North Tyneside for the numbers to work anyway
That's probably the least horrendous configuration for that area. With that cunty pile of shit North Tyneside being one ward too big for two seats, it's better to stick that ward in a leftovers seat than to have multiple cross-border seats.
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Post by aidanthomson on Jul 7, 2022 7:22:43 GMT
Here you go. A masterpiece of the boundary-drawer's art. It's almost as good as Glasgow (Blackfriars and Hutchesontown) from the 1885 review.
That looks like four corners meeting at an X-junction (?) so they question of whether the constituency had a disjointed part is a philosophical question as much as it is a geographical question. It's not quite an X-junction, though there isn't any road link between the Pollok and Pollokshields parts. The connection was a few metres of the White Cart Water plus the Polloktoun footbridge. So the constituency was still geographically in one piece - just.
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Post by afleitch on Jul 7, 2022 11:55:01 GMT
Here you go. A masterpiece of the boundary-drawer's art. It's almost as good as Glasgow (Blackfriars and Hutchesontown) from the 1885 review.
The seat connected here; britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/200377145-bridge-white-cart-water-pollok-house-pollok-park-pollokshaws-road-glasgow-glasgow#.YsbFelPTUzRA listed footbridge in an old country estate. There's quite a few of these in the same Review. It also happened in Strathkelvin and Bearsden as Bearsden is technically detached as there is no bridge. People also forget about Clackmannan. Two parts detached by a much more sizable river with no crossing. It did potentially (though I'd have to check the ED description) touch a tiny bridge to the west, but that didn't connect both parts of the seat as it crossed from Stirling to Stirling. There is still to this day a detached part of Argyll and Bute, other than the islands, just north of Oban. But it is linked by a bridge. This happened before the Third Review because the Commission moved the Strathclyde/Highland boundary before it started. And further north there was a detached part of the mainland in Ross, Cromarty and Skye in the south shore of Loch Hourn.
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Post by islington on Jul 7, 2022 13:58:43 GMT
Here you go. A masterpiece of the boundary-drawer's art. It's almost as good as Glasgow (Blackfriars and Hutchesontown) from the 1885 review.
That looks like four corners meeting at an X-junction (?) so they question of whether the constituency had a disjointed part is a philosophical question as much as it is a geographical question. I'm not sure where this belongs (almost certainly not here) but since things seem very quiet today on the general political front - just the odd prime ministerial resignation, nothing much to see here - let me take up Mr Loony's philosophical point.
A quadripoint (I'd call it) is a common feature in countries like the US where a lot of boundaries are straight lines. It's much less common in the UK and often boundaries that look like quadripoints from a distance turn out on closer scrutiny to be two tripoints very close together. But a true quadripoint happens occasionally - not, I think we've established, in the case of Glasgow Pollok above, but if you want an example on the current map check Cheswardine ward in Shropshire at the westernmost point of which, in the Tern Hill area, there is what you would classify either as a salient or as a detached part, depending on your attitude to quadripoints.
The OS treats it as a salient; I prefer to think of it as a detached part.
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