Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 10, 2018 18:42:42 GMT
I'm surprised Foggy didn't go back to 1832, when most of the detached parts of counties were moved to constituencies in the surrounding county. I've always maintained I want counties to be contiguous. Yes, we had major floods around here under 5 years ago, but they weren't The Flood.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Dec 10, 2018 19:53:03 GMT
I'm surprised Foggy didn't go back to 1832, when most of the detached parts of counties were moved to constituencies in the surrounding county. I've always maintained I want counties to be contiguous. Yes, we had major floods around here under 5 years ago, but they weren't The Flood. I suppose pre-1974 Lancashire was only contiguous at low tide?
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 10, 2018 21:58:11 GMT
I've always maintained I want counties to be contiguous. Yes, we had major floods around here under 5 years ago, but they weren't The Flood. I suppose pre-1974 Lancashire was only contiguous at low tide? Where pre-1974 counties have detached parts, I support them being tidied up, but in local votes rather than at the stroke of a Whitehall cartographer's pen. The people of the Furness ought to be able to choose whether they want to become part of Westmorland or Cumberland, but 'Cumbria' should not be an option.
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Post by therealriga on Dec 10, 2018 22:27:55 GMT
I suppose pre-1974 Lancashire was only contiguous at low tide? Where pre-1974 counties have detached parts, I support them being tidied up, but in local votes rather than at the stroke of a Whitehall cartographer's pen. The people of the Furness ought to be able to choose whether they want to become part of Westmorland or Cumberland, but 'Cumbria' should not be an option. I'm guessing any hypothetical "Restore Cromartyshire" campaign would get short shrift from you, then? The UK has been pretty good at solving things like that compared to other countries, particularly hispanophone countries. Spain has loads of enclaves, Treviño being one of the biggest, while Panama city has a doughnut hole in the form of San Miguelito council, basically the really dodgy estates in the north.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 10, 2018 23:22:59 GMT
Where pre-1974 counties have detached parts, I support them being tidied up, but in local votes rather than at the stroke of a Whitehall cartographer's pen. The people of the Furness ought to be able to choose whether they want to become part of Westmorland or Cumberland, but 'Cumbria' should not be an option. I'm guessing any hypothetical "Restore Cromartyshire" campaign would get short shrift from you, then? The UK has been pretty good at solving things like that compared to other countries, particularly hispanophone countries. Spain has loads of enclaves, Treviño being one of the biggest, while Panama city has a doughnut hole in the form of San Miguelito council, basically the really dodgy estates in the north. Scotland can do what it wants in terms of local government. I don't expect Cromartyshire to make a reappearance. I didn't know that about Panama, but I had spotted what a disgrace the Spanish provinces and regions are in that respect. I've noticed a lot of non-contiguous constituencies in Italy and even (at state level) in Germany within the past year or so too.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Dec 11, 2018 18:12:34 GMT
Since then however he has, as I understand it, become progressively lazier & more aloof and accepted a knighthood which many constituents thought was unjustified, and this was compounded by a general swing against Labour in ex-mining constituencies with very few exceptions (though of course the size of that swing varied considerably). I think by the time of his defeat he had become a positive electoral non-asset to Labour in the constituency. He underperformed badly in both 2010 and 2015; re-elected on a very low share of the poll for the size of the majority. The lack of any upwards movement in 2015 (unlike most similar constituencies) was telling. And o/c when he ran for Mayor a few years before that he lost by a surprisingly wide margin.
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Post by therealriga on Dec 11, 2018 18:33:27 GMT
I'm guessing any hypothetical "Restore Cromartyshire" campaign would get short shrift from you, then? The UK has been pretty good at solving things like that compared to other countries, particularly hispanophone countries. Spain has loads of enclaves, Treviño being one of the biggest, while Panama city has a doughnut hole in the form of San Miguelito council, basically the really dodgy estates in the north. Scotland can do what it wants in terms of local government. I don't expect Cromartyshire to make a reappearance. I didn't know that about Panama, but I had spotted what a disgrace the Spanish provinces and regions are in that respect. I've noticed a lot of non-contiguous constituencies in Italy and even (at state level) in Germany within the past year or so too. Spain is a total mess. The historic roots behind it are easy to understand: prominent landowner centuries back bought a strategic bit of land a few kilometres away or maybe just because he could and didn't buy the parts in between, but they've had plenty of time to tidy it up and there doesn't seem any will to do so. Valencia is the one I know best and that's all over the place. ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/València#/map/0 In the north west, a narrow salient sticks out, surrounded by other municipalities. In the north east, there are three exclave villages attached to the city council. In the south, a narrow strip of land links the lake with the city and in the west, Barri de la llum is split in two. The western bit of that is cut off from the rest of the neighbouring municipality of Xirivella by the river. There are also streets on the west side of the river which should logically belong to Xirivella but belong to Mislata and the only way residents can get to the centre of that is to go through Xirivella and cross the highway bridge over the river. ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mislata#/map/0 It's loopy. I just can't think of any remote equivalent to that in the UK. There's also the situation of micro-municipalities with a number of residents in single digits, besides the fact that it seriously undermines the secrecy of the ballot, it makes provision of meaningful local services impossible. San Miguelito is a complete enclave of Panama city which I've never understood, since it was only created in 1970. I thought it might have had something to do with the US controlled canal zone, but no. In the UK the only one I never got was Rutherglen, adding it to Glasgow seemed to make sense, but why did they divide it again?
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 11, 2018 18:41:24 GMT
Yeah, other than Valencia, the one region that comes to mind is the Basque Country. There's a huge exclave of the Castillian province of Burgos entirely surrounded by Álava. The Urrunaga reservoir belongs to Biscay province as an almost detached part too.
I'd spotted some anomalies on maps of Valencian Country before, but I'd never had such a detailed explanation of a few of them, so thanks. The thinking behind San Miguelito remains a mystery, then!
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Post by therealriga on Dec 11, 2018 19:32:13 GMT
Yeah, other than Valencia, the one region that comes to mind is the Basque Country. There's a huge exclave of the Castillian province of Burgos entirely surrounded by Álava. I mentioned that above and I even wrote/translated the Wikipedia article on it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treviño_enclave_disputeThere is an explanation for the weird boundaries of the municipalities to the west of Valencia city: in the aftermath of the flood of 1957 which caused massive damage and killed nearly 100 people, they rerouted Valencia's main river and the new course bisected existing municipalities. Newer housing developments ended up on the wrong side of it. In the UK, they'd just change the boundaries accordingly, but in Spain there seems to be a weird possessiveness, with municipalities clinging to their land like medieval barons. The only significant change I know of in Spain is Madrid council giving some of its land to Rivas-Vaciamadrid for a new estate and even there the theory is that the PSOE-controlled Madrid council worried, quite correctly, that these newer overspill estates would vote Communist / United Left. I'm sure the UK has anomalies, but I just can't think of any so blatant?
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 11, 2018 20:50:22 GMT
Yeah, other than Valencia, the one region that comes to mind is the Basque Country. There's a huge exclave of the Castillian province of Burgos entirely surrounded by Álava. I mentioned that above and I even wrote/translated the Wikipedia article on it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treviño_enclave_disputeI'm sure the UK has anomalies, but I just can't think of any so blatant? Oh, cool! Looks like the central authorities (and PP-run Burgos) are being very stubborn about holding onto that one. There also appears to be a bit of Cantabria in Biscay province, and in turn another exclave of Biscay inside Álava. I think for any clear examples in the UK you'd have to reach down to polling district level. The closest thing above that would be Newmarket, but if you zoom in enough you can see it's not actually physically separate from the rest of Suffolk. I see the second-largest town in Treviño has fewer than 600 inhabitants. The state broadcaster had a nice quiz about depopulation in Spain a month ago – although I can't seem to locate the accompanying article – whilst in Galicia some villages have been abandoned completely and the infamously out-of-touch Goop site even recommends one of these empty municipalities as a Christmas gift idea!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 21:30:20 GMT
Georgia’s counties were all won by the same candidate in 1972 and 1976.
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Post by therealriga on Dec 11, 2018 22:42:10 GMT
Oh, cool! Looks like the central authorities (and PP-run Burgos) are being very stubborn about holding onto that one. There also appears to be a bit of Cantabria in Biscay province, and in turn another exclave of Biscay inside Álava. Oh, there are loads. There's a list here: www.statoids.com/yes.html Burgos has 4 and Palencia has 5 and both have exclaves in each other. Bonkers. The whole local government system there needs a huge shake-up but vested interests seem to rule. There is a small secessionist movement in León, seeking its own community, and they even have a seat in the regional assembly. I noticed Newmarket when I was on Boundary Assistant and checked Wikipedia afterwards. According to that, the Local government commission and Newmarket Urban District Council were both in favour of a move to Cambridgeshire, though adding the neighbouring bits of Cambs to West Suffolk was also suggested. I guess the locals are currently happy?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 10:52:43 GMT
He could of course frustrate this by shaving off his beard at any time, though I accept that that might be unlikely. Is it more likely than him coming out in favour of a second referendum?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Dec 12, 2018 12:21:30 GMT
The last PM to have an actual beard I suppose was the great Lord Salisbury who could not be more different to Corbyn in just about every respect
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 18:02:07 GMT
The last time the following cities elected a Conservative Councillor/MP
Glasgow: 2017/1979 Liverpool: 1994/1979 Manchester: 1992/1983 Newcastle: 1992/1983 Nottingham: 2018/1987 Sheffield: 2004/1992 Stoke-on-Trent: 2015/2017
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Post by bjornhattan on Dec 16, 2018 14:09:35 GMT
The last time the following cities elected a Conservative Councillor/MP Glasgow: 2017/1979 Liverpool: 1994/1979 Manchester: 1992/1983 Newcastle: 1992/1983 Nottingham: 2018/1987 Sheffield: 2004/1992 Stoke-on-Trent: 2015/2017 Oxford reverses the general trend of last councillor after last MP, with 2000/2015.
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Post by greenhert on Dec 16, 2018 14:28:33 GMT
The last time the following cities elected a Conservative Councillor/MP Glasgow: 2017/1979 Liverpool: 1994/1979 Manchester: 1992/1983 Newcastle: 1992/1983 Nottingham: 2018/1987 Sheffield: 2004/1992 Stoke-on-Trent: 2015/2017 Oxford reverses the general trend of last councillor after last MP, with 2000/2015. Except the Conservative MP was serving specifically Oxford West & Abingdon, with the more Conservative Abingdon part being the larger part of that constituency.
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Post by bjornhattan on Dec 16, 2018 15:09:58 GMT
Oxford reverses the general trend of last councillor after last MP, with 2000/2015. Except the Conservative MP was serving specifically Oxford West & Abingdon, with the more Conservative Abingdon part being the larger part of that constituency. Though considering the huge margin of victory for the Conservative in 2015, I would strongly suspect that the Oxford part of the seat would have still voted Conservative, albeit narrowly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 16:48:25 GMT
Except the Conservative MP was serving specifically Oxford West & Abingdon, with the more Conservative Abingdon part being the larger part of that constituency. Though considering the huge margin of victory for the Conservative in 2015, I would strongly suspect that the Oxford part of the seat would have still voted Conservative, albeit narrowly. Not sure about that. Wolvercote yes but not Jericho, North, St Margaret’s and Summertown. Oxford West & Abingdon should really be called Abingdon & Oxford North to reflect where most of the voters live. It’s contained even less of Oxford since Carfax and Holywell wards were removed in 2010.
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Post by pragmaticidealist on Dec 19, 2018 18:43:31 GMT
Rob Johnson served as a councillor for the Wallington South ward in Sutton from 1978 until 1986, when he lost his seat standing on a "Conservative Democrat" slate after having previously been elected as a Conservative.
He then served as a member of the Western Australia Parliament from 1993 until 2017, when he lost his seat standing as an independent after having previously been elected as a Liberal.
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