|
|
Post by Wisconsin on Jun 22, 2024 14:59:17 GMT
If he loves wars so much as he appears to do, why doesn't he bugger off to fight in one e.g. Ukraine and give the rest of us a break? It's illegal - The Foreign Enlistment Act 1870, blocks citizens from joining foreign militaries fighting countries at peace with Britain I’m not sure he cares for the law very much. |
|
|
|
Post by sirnorfolkpassmore on Jun 22, 2024 16:06:58 GMT
Situations like this are exactly the sort of thing s. 106 of the Representation of the People Act 1983 was created for. Mercer's other difficulty here, it seems to me, is he heavily implied that his "knowledge" of his opponent's military record derived from being Armed Forces Minister - essentially, "I've seen your file, sunshine". That may, of course, simply be a lie. But if Mercer has seen his opponent's file, that's a pretty clear and serious data protection breach. The MoD legitimately has files on former service personnel as data controller. But, crucially, a data controller can only use information for the legitimate purpose for which it was collected. That legitimate purpose very clearly isn't so ministers can snoop on political opponents and, if that's what he called up the file to do, then he and officials are in a very dangerous position. |
|
|
|
Post by batman on Jun 22, 2024 16:26:38 GMT
I've asked before: How many UK citizens were thereby convicted for fighting in Spain in the 1930s?
Not that many, but one notable example was John Amery, older brother of Julian Amery and older son of Leopold Amery, both long serving Conservative MPs. presumably he fought for the fascists? |
|
|
|
Post by rcronald on Jun 22, 2024 16:34:22 GMT
Not that many, but one notable example was John Amery, older brother of Julian Amery and older son of Leopold Amery, both long serving Conservative MPs. presumably he fought for the fascists? Probably the only war in history where I would have supported the Fascists… Genuine rubbish vs rubbish war |
|
|
|
Post by matureleft on Jun 22, 2024 16:35:36 GMT
Not that many, but one notable example was John Amery, older brother of Julian Amery and older son of Leopold Amery, both long serving Conservative MPs. presumably he fought for the fascists? Indeed, and was executed as a traitor in 1945 after a guilty plea. |
|
|
|
Post by sirnorfolkpassmore on Jun 22, 2024 16:46:21 GMT
presumably he fought for the fascists? Indeed, and was executed as a traitor in 1945 after a guilty plea. John Amery was described by Albert Pierrepoint, Britain's executioner for about 25 years, as the bravest man he ever killed. Incredibly polite to all present, and eerily serene throughout, apparently. He'd also pleaded guilty despite knowing the only sentence the judge could pass was death. I don't note that as if it was anything particularly admirable - the man was appalling - but it's an odd and somewhat creepy aspect of it all. |
|
|
|
Post by batman on Jun 22, 2024 17:38:08 GMT
Some have theorised that Julian Amery's consistent opposition to restoring the death penalty - he was very right-wing but always voted against restoring it - was linked to the hanging of his brother. He was my MP briefly in the early 80s & I voted against him in the 1983 general election.
|
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,785 
|
Post by john07 on Jun 22, 2024 18:12:32 GMT
Not that many, but one notable example was John Amery, older brother of Julian Amery and older son of Leopold Amery, both long serving Conservative MPs. presumably he fought for the fascists? He was with the Waffen SS during WW2 which resulted in his execution. |
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 22, 2024 22:01:28 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that none of the charges for which John Amery was convicted related to his activities in Spain
|
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 22, 2024 22:14:34 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that none of the charges for which John Amery was convicted related to his activities in Spain He was charged with high treason in Germany and Italy between 22 June 1941 and 25 April 1945. But there was an attempt to get him off the charge by claiming he had become a naturalised citizen of Spain during the Spanish Civil War. |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,772
|
Post by right on Jun 23, 2024 16:08:20 GMT
|
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,719
Member is Online
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Jun 29, 2024 22:01:56 GMT
I was so saddened when a heart condition led to retired Commodore Gareth Derrick, 36-year RN veteran, Cold War, Falklands, Gulf, and Iraq veteran, ex-Commodore Maritime Marine, having to step down as the Labour candidate last year. Could you imagine how stuck Johnny Mercer would have been? As Veteran's Minister, he has attempted, by planted hustings' questions, to destroy his Labour opponent, a recently retired Marine, claiming he has lied about combat experience, although he knows the experience is so recent his opponent is not allowed to talk about it, or even receive an official commendation (decoration). Even though the head of Special Services acknowledged, in his end of service letter, the work he had done, Mercer has gone for him as a "Walter Mitty".
I think Mercer is a truly contemptable character and hope he is soundly beaten, and thus roundly condemned, for his appallingly disreputable campaign.
|
|
|
|
Post by London Lad on Jun 30, 2024 6:25:50 GMT
I was so saddened when a heart condition led to retired Commodore Gareth Derrick, 36-year RN veteran, Cold War, Falklands, Gulf, and Iraq veteran, ex-Commodore Maritime Marine, having to step down as the Labour candidate last year. Could you imagine how stuck Johnny Mercer would have been? As Veteran's Minister, he has attempted, by planted hustings' questions, to destroy his Labour opponent, a recently retired Marine, claiming he has lied about combat experience, although he knows the experience is so recent his opponent is not allowed to talk about it, or even receive an official commendation (decoration). Even though the head of Special Services acknowledged, in is end of service letter, the work he had done, Mercer has gone for him as a "Walter Mitty". I think Mercer is a truly contemptable character and hope he is soundly beaten, and thus roundly condemned, for his appallingly disreputable campaign. The Labour guy has backpeddled from the claim of having combat experience - he is blaming the Guardian for making it up. |
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,719
Member is Online
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Jun 30, 2024 8:02:20 GMT
I was so saddened when a heart condition led to retired Commodore Gareth Derrick, 36-year RN veteran, Cold War, Falklands, Gulf, and Iraq veteran, ex-Commodore Maritime Marine, having to step down as the Labour candidate last year. Could you imagine how stuck Johnny Mercer would have been? As Veteran's Minister, he has attempted, by planted hustings' questions, to destroy his Labour opponent, a recently retired Marine, claiming he has lied about combat experience, although he knows the experience is so recent his opponent is not allowed to talk about it, or even receive an official commendation (decoration). Even though the head of Special Services acknowledged, in is end of service letter, the work he had done, Mercer has gone for him as a "Walter Mitty". I think Mercer is a truly contemptable character and hope he is soundly beaten, and thus roundly condemned, for his appallingly disreputable campaign. The Labour guy has backpeddled from the claim of having combat experience - he is blaming the Guardian for making it up. Not exactly, he is saying the specifics were misreported , but still contends he was on a combat mission that is still too recent for him to discuss specifics. |
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,913
|
Post by The Bishop on Jun 30, 2024 12:14:50 GMT
I was so saddened when a heart condition led to retired Commodore Gareth Derrick, 36-year RN veteran, Cold War, Falklands, Gulf, and Iraq veteran, ex-Commodore Maritime Marine, having to step down as the Labour candidate last year. Could you imagine how stuck Johnny Mercer would have been? As Veteran's Minister, he has attempted, by planted hustings' questions, to destroy his Labour opponent, a recently retired Marine, claiming he has lied about combat experience, although he knows the experience is so recent his opponent is not allowed to talk about it, or even receive an official commendation (decoration). Even though the head of Special Services acknowledged, in is end of service letter, the work he had done, Mercer has gone for him as a "Walter Mitty". I think Mercer is a truly contemptable character and hope he is soundly beaten, and thus roundly condemned, for his appallingly disreputable campaign. The Labour guy has backpeddled from the claim of having combat experience - he is blaming the Guardian for making it up. He can't talk explicitly about exactly what he did because of the Official Secrets Act - Mercer knows this and has duly (and unscrupulously) exploited it. |
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,785
|
Post by john07 on Jun 30, 2024 14:04:30 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that none of the charges for which John Amery was convicted related to his activities in Spain He was charged with high treason in Germany and Italy between 22 June 1941 and 25 April 1945. But there was an attempt to get him off the charge by claiming he had become a naturalised citizen of Spain during the Spanish Civil War. That defence didn’t work for Lord Haw Haw who was Irish but a UK citizen at birth. |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 30, 2024 14:32:57 GMT
He was charged with high treason in Germany and Italy between 22 June 1941 and 25 April 1945. But there was an attempt to get him off the charge by claiming he had become a naturalised citizen of Spain during the Spanish Civil War. That defence didn’t work for Lord Haw Haw who was Irish but a UK citizen at birth. Presume you mean "US citizen at birth". Joyce was never a UK citizen. He did however obtain (fraudulently) a valid UK passport, which he could have used to request UK consular assistance and therefore owed some allegiance to the United Kingdom - and that technicality was enough to make his actions treasonous. |
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,785
|
Post by john07 on Jun 30, 2024 14:41:45 GMT
That defence didn’t work for Lord Haw Haw who was Irish but a UK citizen at birth. Presume you mean "US citizen at birth". Joyce was never a UK citizen. He did however obtain (fraudulently) a valid UK passport, which he could have used to request UK consular assistance and therefore owed some allegiance to the United Kingdom - and that technicality was enough to make his actions treasonous. Thanks for the clarification. It makes no difference to the legal argument. |
|
|
|
Post by swindonlad on Jul 1, 2024 18:41:36 GMT
I thought that Mercer might have been able to survive due to his high profile if the overall national swing was lower than the pollsters had predicted, but with his recent comments that outside chance has vanished.
|
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,719
Member is Online
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Jul 3, 2024 13:51:28 GMT
|
|
