Clacton

[timrollpickering]

Jul 23, 2024 23:50:26 GMT john07 said:

Jul 23, 2024 23:14:37 GMT timrollpickering said:

However more and more parliaments also include representatives for citizens living outside the state. Does anyone want to calculate just how many constituencies we now live in?

I think a better solution would be to create an additional constituency (or constituencies) rather than allocate them to the last constituency they resided in.

From an administrative point of view this would probably be simpler. A lot of records simply no longer exist in accessible form (and in some cases the addresses no longer exist) making it hard to verify last constituencies plus the global slow down of postal services makes the UK's tight timetable for getting the ballot papers printed, posted, out and back between the close of nominations and close of poll increasingly unworkable.

[observer]

Jul 24, 2024 8:29:07 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

Jul 23, 2024 21:18:29 GMT observer said:

I make my voting decisions on the basis of what I believe would be best for Britain.
Americans abroad get a vote in US elections. And the French, Spanish, Brazilians...and on and on and on
Those decisions are based on the understanding that people may live and work abroad but are still citizens of their countries. Are you saying that people should give up their citizenship when they go abroad?

Observant readers may have noticed that I did not at any time suggest you should not have the right to vote. My comments were solely concerned with which policy decisions do and do not impact you.

There's no way that you could somehow separate a vote into the categories that affect me and those that don't.
Anyway, it all affects me as I'm a UK citizen and, as a citizen, I have as much right to, in my little way, try to shape my country.
There needs to be honesty on this: some people merely want some people to be banned purely on the basis of what party they think people living abroad may support

[East Anglian Lefty]

I'm sure it gives you a warm feeling inside to feel you're being persecuted, but it is in fact possible to think you're using "us" in a way that makes no sense for your circumstances without also having a burning desire to see you disenfranchised.

[observer]

Jul 24, 2024 9:05:03 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

I'm sure it gives you a warm feeling inside to feel you're being persecuted, but it is in fact possible to think you're using "us" in a way that makes no sense for your circumstances without also having a burning desire to see you disenfranchised.

I'll leave those childlike points to you

[r34t]

Jul 24, 2024 8:43:56 GMT observer said:

Jul 23, 2024 22:04:32 GMT r34t said:

You have every right to make comments. I have every right to ignore your hypocrisy. 

It's you that's the hypocrite

 you're soooooo funny 

[Devil Wincarnate]

I'm not a fan of constituencies for citizens resident abroad. For the simple reasons that living abroad isn't monolithic mindset or set of circumstances, and to expect a MP to be on top of all manner of issues that could be raised.

To put it another way, very little binds (say) me and aargauer working in Germany and Switzerland with a pensioner in Benidorm, a holiday rep in Cyprus, a banker in Luxembourg or a bloke running a ski school in Andorra other than not being in the country.

What I would like to see is that you can register in the constituency of your choice. But that you cannot change that unless you return to the country. Last constituency of residence is probably easier from an admin perspective, but it surely can't be beyond the wit and wisdom of the authorities to allow you to vote in another seat?

[observer]

Jul 24, 2024 9:29:02 GMT r34t said:

Jul 24, 2024 8:43:56 GMT observer said:

It's you that's the hypocrite

 you're soooooo funny 

You? Tragic

[Pete Whitehead]

Jul 24, 2024 9:59:55 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

I'm not a fan of constituencies for citizens resident abroad. For the simple reasons that living abroad isn't monolithic mindset or set of circumstances, and to expect a MP to be on top of all manner of issues that could be raised.

To put it another way, very little binds (say) me and aargauer working in Germany and Switzerland with a pensioner in Benidorm, a holiday rep in Cyprus, a banker in Luxembourg or a bloke running a ski school in Andorra other than not being in the country.

What I would like to see is that you can register in the constituency of your choice. But that you cannot change that unless you return to the country. Last constituency of residence is probably easier from an admin perspective, but it surely can't be beyond the wit and wisdom of the authorities to allow you to vote in another seat?

Well presumably a constituency that they have some connection to, have lived in or been registered in? Otherwise you're just going to get organised mass registrations of #FBPE types in places like Clacton..

[East Anglian Lefty]

Jul 24, 2024 9:59:55 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

I'm not a fan of constituencies for citizens resident abroad. For the simple reasons that living abroad isn't monolithic mindset or set of circumstances, and to expect a MP to be on top of all manner of issues that could be raised.

To put it another way, very little binds (say) me and aargauer working in Germany and Switzerland with a pensioner in Benidorm, a holiday rep in Cyprus, a banker in Luxembourg or a bloke running a ski school in Andorra other than not being in the country.

What I would like to see is that you can register in the constituency of your choice. But that you cannot change that unless you return to the country. Last constituency of residence is probably easier from an admin perspective, but it surely can't be beyond the wit and wisdom of the authorities to allow you to vote in another seat?

I don't see the logic of this - yes, there are a lot of different issues overseas citizens could face, but it is a lot easier for an MP specifically representing overseas citizens to be on top of them than it is for an MP for whom 99.5% of their constituents are based in the constituency.

This is especially the case since whilst residents in Germany, Benidorm, Cyprus and Luxembourg will face different issues, there will be unifying features because they're part of the same trading bloc. Whereas if your 0.5% are scattered across all the continents of the world, it's even harder to have a handle on them.

I'm not convinced there is a burning need for overseas constituencies, as the number of overseas voters (as opposed to electors) is small and their use of the franchise is primarily about identification with Britain rather than practical, material impacts upon them of government decisions. But I think the benefits from a casework perspective certainly go in that direction, whereas I see pretty much no reason that somebody should just be allowed to pick a seat to vote in because they happen to want to.

[mrpastelito]

Jul 24, 2024 9:59:55 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

I'm not a fan of constituencies for citizens resident abroad. For the simple reasons that living abroad isn't monolithic mindset or set of circumstances, and to expect a MP to be on top of all manner of issues that could be raised.

To put it another way, very little binds (say) me and aargauer working in Germany and Switzerland with a pensioner in Benidorm, a holiday rep in Cyprus, a banker in Luxembourg or a bloke running a ski school in Andorra other than not being in the country.

What I would like to see is that you can register in the constituency of your choice. But that you cannot change that unless you return to the country. Last constituency of residence is probably easier from an admin perspective, but it surely can't be beyond the wit and wisdom of the authorities to allow you to vote in another seat?

I think that's the way Austria do it (multi-member constituencies of course), but I'm happy to be corrected by Georg Ebner.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Jul 24, 2024 10:30:03 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

Jul 24, 2024 9:59:55 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

I'm not a fan of constituencies for citizens resident abroad. For the simple reasons that living abroad isn't monolithic mindset or set of circumstances, and to expect a MP to be on top of all manner of issues that could be raised.

To put it another way, very little binds (say) me and aargauer working in Germany and Switzerland with a pensioner in Benidorm, a holiday rep in Cyprus, a banker in Luxembourg or a bloke running a ski school in Andorra other than not being in the country.

What I would like to see is that you can register in the constituency of your choice. But that you cannot change that unless you return to the country. Last constituency of residence is probably easier from an admin perspective, but it surely can't be beyond the wit and wisdom of the authorities to allow you to vote in another seat?

Well presumably a constituency that they have some connection to, have lived in or been registered in? Otherwise you're just going to get organised mass registrations of #FBPE types in places like Clacton..

Absolutely. Choice of last residence or place of birth maybe? The latter might even be better because it's easy to prove.

[uthacalthing]

Jul 24, 2024 0:19:21 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Jul 23, 2024 21:54:13 GMT Jack said:

You shouldn't have to give up citizenship, but if you move abroad and are not planning on returning and pay no UK taxes, you shouldn't still get a vote.

The franchise should not be based on if you are rich enough to pay taxes.

It should be denied to those who choose to evade them 

[Georg Ebner]

Jul 24, 2024 10:48:40 GMT mrpastelito said:

Jul 24, 2024 9:59:55 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

I'm not a fan of constituencies for citizens resident abroad. For the simple reasons that living abroad isn't monolithic mindset or set of circumstances, and to expect a MP to be on top of all manner of issues that could be raised.

To put it another way, very little binds (say) me and aargauer working in Germany and Switzerland with a pensioner in Benidorm, a holiday rep in Cyprus, a banker in Luxembourg or a bloke running a ski school in Andorra other than not being in the country.

What I would like to see is that you can register in the constituency of your choice. But that you cannot change that unless you return to the country. Last constituency of residence is probably easier from an admin perspective, but it surely can't be beyond the wit and wisdom of the authorities to allow you to vote in another seat?

I think that's the way Austria do it (multi-member constituencies of course), but I'm happy to be corrected by Georg Ebner.

Indeed.
Though de facto we have only 1 constituency (Austria as a whole) with an austrian-wide 4%-treshold (a la Germany with 5%): You are either in or out everywhere. De iure a direct seat in 1 of the const.s below could let a party come in with less than 4%, but that has since its introDuction 1971 never been the case (in theory KPÖ might achieve in two months one seat in Graz, yet it's unlikely).

[No Offence Alan]

The franchise should be people who are both citizens and residents - simples.

[froome]

I think the debate about UK citizens living abroad having the right to vote here is a really interesting one.

But could we have it somewhere else rather than cluttering up the Clacton thread?

[J.G.Harston]

Jul 24, 2024 6:42:36 GMT islington said:

Jul 24, 2024 0:08:55 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Not a Voter Suppression Act, but a proper Franchise Act:

Franchise Reform Bill

Abstract
To Establish An Adult Citizen Franchise

1: A person shall have the right to vote if both of the following apply:
a) The person is an adult
b) The person is a citizen of the United Kingdom

2: No amendments to these conditions shall be made by amending this Act, but
by legislation relating to Adulthood and Citizenship.

3: The right to vote shall immediately cease if any of of the following occurs:
a) The person ceases to be an adult
b) The person ceases to be a citizen of the United Kingdom
c) Upon conviction of an appropriate offense.

4: No amendments to these cases shall be made by amending the Act, but by
legislation relating to Adulthood, Citizenshop, and Sentencing.

5: All persons who have the right to vote by the Act shall also have the right
to stand for election, and engage in all parts of the electoral processes.

6: All previous Acts, or parts of Acts, relating to franchise rights are hereby
repealed.

Lunatics? Members of the House of Lords? (Potentially overlapping categories admittedly.)

Seperate legislation to remove their adulthood.

[J.G.Harston]

Jul 24, 2024 11:08:00 GMT uthacalthing said:

Jul 24, 2024 0:19:21 GMT J.G.Harston said:

The franchise should not be based on if you are rich enough to pay taxes.

It should be denied to those who choose to evade them 

Though not through franchise legislation, but through a duely specificed sentence for conviction of a particular crime.

[J.G.Harston]

Jul 24, 2024 12:55:00 GMT No Offence Alan said:

The franchise should be people who are both citizens and residents adults - simples.

FTFY.

[timrollpickering]

Jul 24, 2024 12:55:00 GMT No Offence Alan said:

The franchise should be people who are both citizens and residents - simples.

Nonsense. That's ignoring what citizenship is.

My sister lives in Buenos Aires and doesn't get a vote in Argentinian elections and I've never heard a good reason why she should.

[aargauer]

Jul 24, 2024 12:55:00 GMT No Offence Alan said:

The franchise should be people who are both citizens and residents - simples.

I personally like a (e.g a 5 year) residency qualification. If you pay tax, you should have a say in how the money is spent.

(and personally I think the reverse is true, but I'm not going to win that battle).

I think it's daft that where your parents are from counts more than what your actual contribution to society is.