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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 8, 2024 12:29:55 GMT
We don't have a rust belt either. Why are people so desperate to ape and import Americanisms which are screamingly irrelevant in a UK context? You have reminded me of a MTV programme many years ago that said that Craig David came from "The Flowers Projects" in Southampton. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 8, 2024 12:33:45 GMT
We don't have a rust belt either. Why are people so desperate to ape and import Americanisms which are screamingly irrelevant in a UK context? Indeed. Whatever people might think of them, successive important political actors (from Sir Mr Tony to Lord Heseltine and many MPs and former MPs, including in the case of Rother Valley) have been very active over the years in taking measures to avert that. |
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Post by matureleft on Jul 8, 2024 12:38:32 GMT
The 1945 (very narrow) Labour win wasn’t quite as it seems. The Labour candidate, White, was already the MP, having won the seat in February 1944 in a by-election. Because of the agreement on coalition parties not contesting the seats of another coalition party there could be no official Labour candidate. White was a known Labour figure and had to fight the seat without official party support. He was no doubt helped by the Conservative candidate in 1944 being the Marquess of Hartington. The seat had been seen as being in the gift of the Cavendish family and this would have been resented in the democracy of a “people’s war”. Miserably the Marquess was killed in action in that war just a few months later. The narrow hold in 1986 was against the Liberals not Labour. A non-Tory win was going to come at some point - the area is moving away from them - but this was earlier than I expected. The grip on local government there has already loosened with inroads being made by the LDs, Labour and Greens. Precisely which party would lead a parliamentary challenge wasn’t clear, but this election has given Labour the opportunity to establish that role. Its not really observable in the general election results from 2010 to 2019. Tory vote up roughly in line with the national swing. Indeed. One difficulty is that in general elections this wouldn’t have been anyone’s target (and I’d guess wasn’t this time either). However in local government there has been work done and that’s started to show what I’m saying. As I said this gain was earlier than expected - I’d have put this perhaps 10 years away (assuming appropriate national circumstances). It may well be reversed next time but Labour will have been established as the main challenge and resources will be applied to defend it. And I’d hope the MP will do a decent job! |
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Ports
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Post by Ports on Jul 8, 2024 12:51:00 GMT
We don't have a rust belt either. Why are people so desperate to ape and import Americanisms which are screamingly irrelevant in a UK context? You have reminded me of a MTV programme many years ago that said that Craig David came from "The Flowers Projects" in Southampton. As someone not far from the Flowers Estate that gave me a chuckle. It's the first I've heard of that anecdote, and therefore the first I have heard those words together. In any case if that's what that means David was from the City Centre. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 8, 2024 13:02:39 GMT
You have reminded me of a MTV programme many years ago that said that Craig David came from "The Flowers Projects" in Southampton. As someone not far from the Flowers Estate that gave me a chuckle. It's the first I've heard of that anecdote, and therefore the first I have heard those words together. In any case if that's what that means David was from the City Centre. Although Craig David was a Tory! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 13:16:19 GMT
Many of the Derbyshire towns aren't rust belt like Rother Valley (which was closer than any Derbyshire constituency). Please stop talking nonsense about places of which you clearly know little. Rother Valley is now a decently prosperous constituency, with really only a few pockets of significant deprivation (and most constituencies have those). OK. |
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2024 13:21:54 GMT
You have reminded me of a MTV programme many years ago that said that Craig David came from "The Flowers Projects" in Southampton. As someone not far from the Flowers Estate that gave me a chuckle. It's the first I've heard of that anecdote, and therefore the first I have heard those words together. In any case if that's what that means David was from the City Centre. Who or what or where is or was the “Flowers” Project / Estate / Whatever, and what is the electoral / psephological / demographic significance of the existence thereof? |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Jul 8, 2024 13:45:16 GMT
I see the disowned Reform candidate still got 15% and likely cost the Tories the seat here
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 13:47:21 GMT
Why did the Tories hold Staffordshire Moorlands but not this? That seat had a Labour MP up to 2010. Labour may win Derbyshire council next year.
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Post by riccimarsh on Jul 8, 2024 13:51:07 GMT
Lots of Derbyshire is moving away from the Tories, except Bolsover, North East Derbyshire and possibly Chesterfield long-term. Bolsover will be the Tories' best seat in the county in my lifetime. Many of the Derbyshire towns aren't rust belt like Rother Valley (which was closer than any Derbyshire constituency). I’d confess to having lived in Derbyshire for just over 20 years and I have strong loyalties to the place. Thus what I say has some exaggeration perhaps. But large parts of it are really rather lovely and that includes substantial parts of former industrial seats. With the pits gone and landscapes restored where necessary you have a lot of small towns and villages which are often quite well connected to road systems (rail less so and that needs work). They do attract people from outside the area with initially fairly cheap housing, an attractive environment and a reasonable commute. Better quality local employment is needed - the M1 along the eastern side (so Bolsover and NE Derbyshire) has drawn quite a lot of logistics operations which aren’t great for that - but that will come. Over time these will become more populous and more diverse and their politics will evolve that way - gently leftwards. Not the Labour fortresses they once were but not comfortable Tory territory in any definition of what their party might be. As a current Derbyshire resident I wholeheartedly endorse this description. Derby itself is a bit of a dump, but the surrounding areas, the Derwent Valley, the Dales, the Peak District up around Buxton, etc, are all beautiful. |
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swix
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Post by swix on Jul 8, 2024 14:09:48 GMT
Why did the Tories hold Staffordshire Moorlands but not this? That seat had a Labour MP up to 2010. Labour may win Derbyshire council next year. Karen Bradley is a good local MP. Sarah Dines was a waste of space. |
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Ports
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Post by Ports on Jul 8, 2024 15:05:39 GMT
As someone not far from the Flowers Estate that gave me a chuckle. It's the first I've heard of that anecdote, and therefore the first I have heard those words together. In any case if that's what that means David was from the City Centre. Who or what or where is or was the “Flowers” Project / Estate / Whatever, and what is the electoral / psephological / demographic significance of the existence thereof? The Flowers Estate, or 'Flower Roads', is a series of roads in north Southampton split between the present Bassett and Swaythling wards. It was built during the 1930s as entirely social housing, and the homes are mostly semi-detached. The roads are named after flowers - Honeysuckle, Violet, Lobelia, Carnation and Bluebell are the main through ones, while Daisy, Poppy, Laburnum, Aster, (all east of Lobelia Road) Iris, Pansy, Begonia, Tulip and Primrose (all west, running between Honeysuckle and Violet) come off them. I think that's all of them? All the roads are residential and there is a park called 'Daisy Dip' in the middle but otherwise there are no shops, pubs, amenities until you leave the estate. At the time when David was growing up in the 1980s (in the city centre and not here) it had a reputation of being quite rough, particularly in the western end, but I wouldn't say so now, though it is still less affluent and mainly houses former council tenants and families - the contrast to the neighbouring Bassett Green and Glen Eyre areas is rather stark. As a result if we are talking about electoral significance it might be, to my knowledge, lower turnout in any case. Despite being near the university it doesn't have as much student housing as one might expect - compared to Hampton Park and Portswood, but with its proximity to the university comes distance to everywhere students want to be the rest of the time. I think that's a good short summary but @sharon might want to add some details that I haven't managed to, not least because she represented half of it. |
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2024 16:28:31 GMT
Who or what or where is or was the “Flowers” Project / Estate / Whatever, and what is the electoral / psephological / demographic significance of the existence thereof? The Flowers Estate, or 'Flower Roads', is a series of roads in north Southampton split between the present Bassett and Swaythling wards. It was built during the 1930s as entirely social housing, and the homes are mostly semi-detached. The roads are named after flowers - Honeysuckle, Violet, Lobelia, Carnation and Bluebell are the main through ones, while Daisy, Poppy, Laburnum, Aster, (all east of Lobelia Road) Iris, Pansy, Begonia, Tulip and Primrose (all west, running between Honeysuckle and Violet) come off them. I think that's all of them? All the roads are residential and there is a park called 'Daisy Dip' in the middle but otherwise there are no shops, pubs, amenities until you leave the estate. At the time when David was growing up in the 1980s (in the city centre and not here) it had a reputation of being quite rough, particularly in the western end, but I wouldn't say so now, though it is still less affluent and mainly houses former council tenants and families - the contrast to the neighbouring Bassett Green and Glen Eyre areas is rather stark. As a result if we are talking about electoral significance it might be, to my knowledge, lower turnout in any case. Despite being near the university it doesn't have as much student housing as one might expect - compared to Hampton Park and Portswood, but with its proximity to the university comes distance to everywhere students want to be the rest of the time. I think that's a good short summary but @sharon might want to add some details that I haven't managed to, not least because she represented half of it. That reminds me of a small bit of Shirley in Croydon where the roads are named Primrose Lane, Poppy Lane, Parsley Gardens, Labirnum gardens, Kingcup Close, Hazel Close, Honeysuckle Gardens, Fennel Close, Flag Close, Iris Close, Lupin Close, Marigold Way, Mallow Close, Teasel Close, Tulip Close, Mistletoe Close, Basil Gardens, Oxlip Close, Eyebright Close, Daffodil Close, Cornflower Lane, Crocus Close, Daisy Close, Cottongrass Close, Betany Close, Chive Close, Burdock Close, Angelica Gardens and Alison Close. About a mile away in Addiscombe are Christie Drive, Remdle Close, Grindley Close, Pickering Gardens, Gunnell Close, Akabusi Close, Adams Way, Goodhew Road, Davies Close, Hardcastle Close, Redgrave Close, Backley Avenue and Coe Avenue. When I become Dictator of the World, I will order a group of town planners and architects to build Mainwaring Gardens, Godfrey Gardens, Pike Way, Fawlty Avenue, Gowan Gardens, Rodney Close, Trotter Avenue, Compo Crescent, Fletcher Avenue, Meldrew Close, Hacker Avenue, Clegg Way, Dewhurst Close, Slocombe Gardens, Brahms Close, Peacock Avenue, Rumbold Way, Batty Close, Tibbs Way, Gatsby Gardens, Frazer Close, Yeatman Close, Trigger Close, and so on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 16:29:39 GMT
I feel hurt by those who suggest I don't know Rother Valley constituency. I've been to Woodall services on the National Express en route to Sheffield loads of times.
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Post by aargauer on Jul 8, 2024 16:31:26 GMT
I feel hurt by those who suggest I don't know Rother Valley constituency. I've been to Woodall services on the National Express en route to Sheffield loads of times. I remember the days. Used to take the midnight megabus from London to Newcastle (arriving 7 or 8 am) as an impoverished trainee. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 16:35:11 GMT
I feel hurt by those who suggest I don't know Rother Valley constituency. I've been to Woodall services on the National Express en route to Sheffield loads of times. I remember the days. Used to take the midnight megabus from London to Newcastle (arriving 7 or 8 am) as an impoverished trainee. Cheap as chips. They're not even called National Express. It's Mobico now. Source: I'm a (beleaguered) MOB.L shareholder. The Stagecoach X5 is just a better bus. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 16:38:59 GMT
I feel hurt by those who suggest I don't know Rother Valley constituency. I've been to Woodall services on the National Express en route to Sheffield loads of times. Is this supposed to be sarcastic? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2024 16:40:50 GMT
I feel hurt by those who suggest I don't know Rother Valley constituency. I've been to Woodall services on the National Express en route to Sheffield loads of times. Is this supposed to be sarcastic? Well yes, but I'd Rother you laughed with me and not at me! In all seriousness, I need to see more of Rother Valley and only really know Penistone & Stocksbridge. |
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Post by Robert Waller on Jul 8, 2024 16:43:45 GMT
The Flowers Estate, or 'Flower Roads', is a series of roads in north Southampton split between the present Bassett and Swaythling wards. It was built during the 1930s as entirely social housing, and the homes are mostly semi-detached. The roads are named after flowers - Honeysuckle, Violet, Lobelia, Carnation and Bluebell are the main through ones, while Daisy, Poppy, Laburnum, Aster, (all east of Lobelia Road) Iris, Pansy, Begonia, Tulip and Primrose (all west, running between Honeysuckle and Violet) come off them. I think that's all of them? All the roads are residential and there is a park called 'Daisy Dip' in the middle but otherwise there are no shops, pubs, amenities until you leave the estate. At the time when David was growing up in the 1980s (in the city centre and not here) it had a reputation of being quite rough, particularly in the western end, but I wouldn't say so now, though it is still less affluent and mainly houses former council tenants and families - the contrast to the neighbouring Bassett Green and Glen Eyre areas is rather stark. As a result if we are talking about electoral significance it might be, to my knowledge, lower turnout in any case. Despite being near the university it doesn't have as much student housing as one might expect - compared to Hampton Park and Portswood, but with its proximity to the university comes distance to everywhere students want to be the rest of the time. I think that's a good short summary but @sharon might want to add some details that I haven't managed to, not least because she represented half of it.(above) Paging Sharona/ because she may be unlikely to see this on a Derbyshire Dales thread, which is a long way from Southampton b/ her username is @ visitor so she won't be alerted
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Ports
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Post by Ports on Jul 8, 2024 16:55:40 GMT
Thank you Robert Waller . I should add when I said there are few amenities, it does not mean they are at all far away, on Burgess Road and Bassett Green Road. |
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