batman
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Post by batman on Mar 30, 2024 8:21:53 GMT
Duleep was out caught in the deep in his maiden Test for 174. Ranji was in the crowd & said "he always was a careless lad". A bit harsh.
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Post by timmullen on Mar 30, 2024 8:29:10 GMT
I'm not aware that Alan Butcher played in apartheid era South Africa. He was coach of Zimbabwe for quite a while though. Mark Butcher is the most capped England player from a Caribbean heritage, Nasser Hussein is indeed the player from a non white background to have captained England the most often. Fifth England player of Asian heritage to play in an Ashes test and the first to not score a century on debut. Ranji was the first - anyone name the next three? nothing in Alan Butcher's Wiki to say he played there, as you say. This pretty comprehensive biography also makes no mention of South Africa. addisarmycricket.co.uk/interview-9/ |
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iang
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Post by iang on Mar 30, 2024 9:27:22 GMT
Spot on. Subba Row's father was from Madras, a South Indian Christian, and came to England to study law, which is where he met Raman's English mother. Pataudi's son of course went on to score many test centuries for India
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batman
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Post by batman on Mar 30, 2024 9:40:25 GMT
Hussain is a Madras man too isn't he
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Mar 30, 2024 9:58:23 GMT
It was Middlesex / England player Roland Butcher who nearly toured South Africa in 1989 with Mike Gatting.
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Post by uthacalthing on Mar 30, 2024 12:17:09 GMT
I am glad that my ignorance flushed out this gem
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 30, 2024 12:40:25 GMT
It was Middlesex / England player Roland Butcher who nearly toured South Africa in 1989 with Mike Gatting. His cricket career was nearing its end and he was widely seen as a "token" in an otherwise all white squad. He withdrew after pressure from both anti-apartheid campaigners and, reportedly, personal friends. |
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Post by uthacalthing on Mar 30, 2024 12:55:19 GMT
It was Middlesex / England player Roland Butcher who nearly toured South Africa in 1989 with Mike Gatting. His cricket career was nearing its end and he was widely seen as a "token" in an otherwise all white squad. He withdrew after pressure from both anti-apartheid campaigners and, reportedly, personal friends. Wow. My memory was actually correct The wiki page on the '89 Gatting tour states (as does my memory) that Phil De Freitas was originally part of that touring party but also withdrew. He was in his prime. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_XI_in_South_Africa_in_1989%E2%80%9390The wiki page on de Freitas diplomatically makes no mention of it but is a reminder of what a wonderful cricketer he was en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_DeFreitas |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 30, 2024 13:03:35 GMT
IIRC de Freitas withdrew very quickly, Butcher took a bit longer. Though that isn't stated with 100% confidence.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 30, 2024 13:25:15 GMT
We heard you the first time  Perhaps he was approached twice? (Or the first approach was called for three fielders behind square leg.) |
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Post by oldhamexile on Apr 5, 2024 10:33:56 GMT
IIRC de Freitas withdrew very quickly, Butcher took a bit longer. Though that isn't stated with 100% confidence. I couldn't remember the chronology, so I looked up the Times archive. Both DeFreitas and Butcher withdrew at the same time, on the evening of 8th August. The 'rebel' squad had been announced on 1st August, and the tour was scheduled to begin the following January. As pointed out earlier in this thread, Butcher's Test career was already effectively over. He was 35 and had last played a Test match eight years previously. DeFreitas was only 23, but his dalliance with the rebels was held against him by many in the cricketing establishment. For example during England's tour of the West Indies the following February, Times cricket correspondent Alan Lee wrote: "For DeFreitas, the main problem facing him is discarding his label as tomorrow's man. He needs to start performing now. It is not his fault that his potential was absurdly exaggerated when he first broke into the England team as a precocious 20-year-old. Everyone with vague claims to all-rounder status suffered at the time from the obsessive public desire to draw comparisons with the incomparable Botham. But now, a day short of his 24th birthday, DeFreitas is still keeping everyone waiting for evidence that he can produce cricket of genuine international standard. His Test record is, frankly, deplorable. "...Last summer DeFreitas was prepared to insult the time and patience others have invested in his England career by joining the unofficial tour to South Africa. His late rethink had more to do with political pressure than a rekindled desire to represent his country. Few players have had so many international chances on so little evidence..." |
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iang
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Post by iang on Apr 5, 2024 10:49:53 GMT
It's worth adding that he went on to have a very successful test career in the early 90s - he was a key player from around 1991 to 1994, but after that, in effect got superseded by the similar Dominic Cork. He was always unlucky with injuries, which was part of the reason for only playing 40 odd tests across a 9 year test career
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Post by timrollpickering on Apr 9, 2024 15:57:32 GMT
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Post by ClevelandYorks on Apr 9, 2024 16:00:36 GMT
Could this attract the biggest ever Tory to Labour swing in a by-election? Given the circumstances and a good local Labour candidate, plus probably an area where Reform could take a fair few Tory votes.
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Apr 9, 2024 16:39:25 GMT
Could this attract the biggest ever Tory to Labour swing in a by-election? Given the circumstances and a good local Labour candidate, plus probably an area where Reform could take a fair few Tory votes. Labour would have to be at least 47.1% ahead of the Tories. Can't be entirely ruled out but it's ambitious. |
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batman
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Post by batman on Apr 9, 2024 16:56:39 GMT
I doubt it. It's not a typical Red Wall seat as it has never been a primarily industrial area even though TVR cars were once made there, and it was never a super-safe Labour seat in the way that, say, Bolsover or Rother Valley once were. I don't think Benton has done the Tories any favours, but there is quite an obstinate Tory vote especially in Squires Gate and though I'm quite sure Chris Webb will win very easily I don't expect the swing to be quite as brutal as in certain seats
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Apr 9, 2024 18:13:35 GMT
"Alliance for Freedom and Democracy" is a curious bunch.
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Post by uthacalthing on Apr 9, 2024 18:42:23 GMT
Any party with the word democracy in its name that loses its deposit ought to expel its entire membership and disband.
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Apr 9, 2024 19:07:11 GMT
Could this attract the biggest ever Tory to Labour swing in a by-election? Given the circumstances and a good local Labour candidate, plus probably an area where Reform could take a fair few Tory votes. I doubt it. This is the kind of area to have a comparatively sticky Tory vote. |
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Post by greenhert on Apr 9, 2024 20:13:43 GMT
Could this attract the biggest ever Tory to Labour swing in a by-election? Given the circumstances and a good local Labour candidate, plus probably an area where Reform could take a fair few Tory votes. Labour would have to be at least 47.1% ahead of the Tories. Can't be entirely ruled out but it's ambitious. Interesting that you say this because when Dudley West set the record by-election swing in 1994 Labour came out ~50% ahead! |
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