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Post by John Chanin on Nov 10, 2023 9:42:45 GMT
Yes, they should have. The winner of the drawing of lots gets the RO's casting vote and wins with a majority of one. That can't be correct, can it? The RO doesn't have a vote, they are ensuring the vote takes place complying to all electoral law, which will include the drawing of lots. But I can't see how that can be inferred as being a casting vote. The actual vote is still tied. It is dangerous to argue with Davıd Boothroyd on such matters. Logic does not come into it, as it fails to come into large parts of our "constitution" |
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Post by johnloony on Nov 10, 2023 9:48:09 GMT
Yes, they should have. The winner of the drawing of lots gets the RO's casting vote and wins with a majority of one. That can't be correct, can it? The RO doesn't have a vote, they are ensuring the vote takes place complying to all electoral law, which will include the drawing of lots. But I can't see how that can be inferred as being a casting vote. The actual vote is still tied. Whether it is correct or not is not the question. The question is whether that’s what the law says. The law says that the winner gets an extra “vote” as a result of the coin toss (or whatever other random choice mechanism). |
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Post by andrewp on Nov 10, 2023 9:54:23 GMT
Numbers updated following this weeks contests
Excluding countermanded elections, up to 9th November , there have now been 91 ordinary by elections for 92 seats since May 4th.
The Conservatives have defended 24- Held 7 and lost 17: 5 to the Greens, 7 to the Lib Dem’s, 4 to Labour and 1 to an Independent. ( retention rate 29%) and have gained 6
Labour have defended 37- Held 28 and lost 9: 3 to the Conservatives, 3 to Independents, 2 to the Lib Dem’s and 1 to the Greens( retention rate 76%) and have gained 7
Lib Dem’s have defended 12: Held 10 and lost 2,1 to the Greens and 1 to an Independent ( retention rate 83%) and have gained 11
Greens have defended 7: Held 4 and lost 3: 1 to the Conservatives, 1 to Labour and 1 to an Independent( retention rate 57%) and have gained 7
There have been elections for 4 seats previously held by Independents: 3 have been won by an another Independent and 1 was lost to the Conservatives. . And Independents have gained 6
Residents have defended 3, held 2 and lost 1 to the Lib Dems.
PAB have defended 1, held 1
SNP have defended 3 Lost 3, 1 to the Conservatives and 2 to Labour ( retention rate 0%)
Vectis have defended 1, lost 1 to the Lib Dem’s
Overall net changes
Con -11
Lab -2
LD +9
Green +4
Ind + 5
SNP -3
Res -1
Vectis -1
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Post by johnloony on Nov 10, 2023 9:55:06 GMT
That can't be correct, can it? The RO doesn't have a vote, they are ensuring the vote takes place complying to all electoral law, which will include the drawing of lots. But I can't see how that can be inferred as being a casting vote. The actual vote is still tied. It is dangerous to argue with Davıd Boothroyd on such matters. Logic does not come into it, as it fails to come into large parts of our "constitution" My preference is that a casting vote should count as half a vote, so that when historians read old election results they know that 155.5 votes was a tie. If itmsays 156 and 155, you don’t know if it was a tie with a casting vote or whether it was a majority of one in the first place. |
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Post by andrewteale on Nov 10, 2023 10:08:21 GMT
Yes, they should have. The winner of the drawing of lots gets the RO's casting vote and wins with a majority of one. That can't be correct, can it? The RO doesn't have a vote, they are ensuring the vote takes place complying to all electoral law, which will include the drawing of lots. But I can't see how that can be inferred as being a casting vote. The actual vote is still tied. The wording of the tiebreak rule is that the RO should "proceed as if the candidate on whom the lot falls had received an additional vote". Some ROs declare a majority of one, others declare a tied vote. I think that wording is flexible enough to cover both of those approaches. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 10, 2023 10:38:50 GMT
The fact that the self-styled "True Independent" stood as a Conservative candidate as recently as this May, only adds to the murkiness here.
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Post by yellowperil on Nov 10, 2023 11:55:30 GMT
The fact that the self-styled "True Independent" stood as a Conservative candidate as recently as this May, only adds to the murkiness here. Indeed - it might be thought that the description was not just illegal, it was also pretty inaccurate. |
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ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,619 
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Post by ricmk on Nov 10, 2023 11:57:19 GMT
That (Spalding) must be one of the weakest mandates a newly elected Councillor has ever received. Would the South Holland Independents really have the resources (or care enough) to launch an election petition that the Tories would oppose? Surely smarter to co-ordinate the non-main party candidates to make sure the votes aren't so badly split next time?
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 10, 2023 12:09:41 GMT
I expect they could launch an election petition if they really wanted to, and if they genuinely do feel robbed they probably will want to.
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Post by jamesdoyle on Nov 10, 2023 12:46:48 GMT
GWBWI
LDm +64
Lab +46
Con +19
Grn -2
A week in the black for the Cons! But pretty weak sauce all around.
Note: given the controversy in South Holland, I tried reversing the win to the SHI candidate winning by 1 vote. That would have turned the Con week into -41.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 10, 2023 16:57:04 GMT
That (Spalding) must be one of the weakest mandates a newly elected Councillor has ever received. Would the South Holland Independents really have the resources (or care enough) to launch an election petition that the Tories would oppose? Surely smarter to co-ordinate the non-main party candidates to make sure the votes aren't so badly split next time? Just noticed the turnout as well... As they're the very significant opposition on the council and that before this vacancy happened the Tories had a majority of only one, I think it's pretty certain that they would want to challenge it. |
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