mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Sept 11, 2023 6:45:40 GMT
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Post by ntyuk1707 on Sept 11, 2023 7:53:02 GMT
Resolve Strategic (changes from last month)
No 49% (+2)
Yes 35% (-2)
Dk 16% (=)
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 11, 2023 9:32:53 GMT
The elephant in the room of the Yes campaign is that there is no detail. It’s just a couple of sentences of waffly aspiration, with no specific details at all. It's because many of the campaigners are republicans still burnt by the 1999 referendum when the detail was torn to shreds - e.g. "the Prime Minister can sack the President" and are wedded to the idea that a referendum needs to be on the principle not the detail (note also the general preferred route to a republic involves a non-binding public vote to pit the monarchy against general republicanism first to get momentum then work out the detail with a confirmatory referendum to rubber stamp it). There's also the general best practice that you don't lock too much into a constitution itself but allow law to define the detail. Here the best recent example that springs to mind is Ireland's abortion referendum where the government drew up and published a draft bill that it intended to submit to the Oireachtas if the referendum passed rather than submitting a huge piece of text to go into the constitution itself. But the result is a mess. Would it really have been unworkable to create the Voice anyway to show how it would work in practice first? |
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Sept 11, 2023 18:47:02 GMT
Would it really have been unworkable to create the Voice anyway to show how it would work in practice first? Evidently not, given the Labor government in South Australia are de facto doing that. The issue federally is that the necessity of the Voice is based on doing what the Uluru Statement from the Heart tells them to do (listening to Aboriginal people), and it says the Voice must be constitutionally mandated. Once the government outsourced its policymaking, there’s been little room for manoeuvre. |
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Post by ntyuk1707 on Sept 13, 2023 17:56:27 GMT
Marcia Langton and Linda Burney are the gifts that keep on giving for the No side.
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 13, 2023 18:50:35 GMT
Marcia Langton and Linda Burney are the gifts that keep on giving for the No side. A very gormless policy put forward by a nasty racist very gormless claque looks as if it is going to get a wholly deserved bloody nose 'No' vote which is just as it should be. And what is that dotty professor a professor of? Colouring-In , perhaps? |
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Post by greatkingrat on Sept 13, 2023 19:57:52 GMT
The phrase "Uluru Statement from the Heart" would be enough to put me off on its own, making it sound like some quasi-mystical pronouncement, rather than just some people's opinion.
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Post by uthacalthing on Sept 14, 2023 13:36:28 GMT
What is she a professor of? She is a professor of the long walk through the institutions. She stands on the shoulders of those who made the long walk through the institutions and now she marks the work of others that they too may make the long walk through the institutions.
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 14, 2023 20:19:04 GMT
What is she a professor of? She is a professor of the long walk through the institutions. She stands on the shoulders of those who made the long walk through the institutions and now she marks the work of others that they too may make the long walk through the institutions. So, Silly Walks and Colouring-In it is then? |
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Post by ntyuk1707 on Sept 14, 2023 20:28:33 GMT
Am I the only one totally put off by the Yes campaign's video which basically consists of voting Yes because we say it's the progressive thing to do?
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Sept 14, 2023 21:10:58 GMT
Am I the only one totally put off by the Yes campaign's video which basically consists of voting Yes because we say it's the progressive thing to do? Well it’s better than ‘Vote Yes you racist piece of shit’. |
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Sept 14, 2023 21:17:43 GMT
But more seriously, the Yes campaign’s best strategy for success, by which I mean losing by less, is to run a positive campaign that emphasis’ the Voice as a chance to bring people together in support of giving aboriginals a better life, one step along the road towards progress etc. Just stay positive and take the high ground (without looking smug about it).
I remain sceptical they will do this…
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2023 12:55:05 GMT
The problem with this whole thing is it is a wishy-washy, ill-defined idea (what the hell does 'The Voice' mean and what will it actually do?). But that would not be so much of an issue if the government was not so bloody-minded and simply created such a body, which it can do... right now.
Do that. Learn what works and what doesn't. Tweak it. Win people over with it. Do not scare people off by demanding it be constitutionally mandated, without any idea of what the thing will actually become. Once it's in the constitution, any flexibility to mould the institution (or reform it) is lost.
And then there are things like this which are getting peoples' backs up:
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Post by uthacalthing on Sept 15, 2023 13:23:44 GMT
What is she a professor of? She is a professor of the long walk through the institutions. She stands on the shoulders of those who made the long walk through the institutions and now she marks the work of others that they too may make the long walk through the institutions. So, Silly Walks and Colouring-In it is then? No, you have totally missed the point, and it is a very important point. She is engaged in something very serious that has resulted in all the things that annoy you but which you have not taken the trouble to understand. Which is why she is winning and you are losing. It is why when she loses this particulate little skirmish, it does not matter, it is not a step backwards, it is merely a failure to take that particular step forward and while she was being prevented from taking that step forward one of her colleagues fighting on a different less noticed front took a tiny step forward. |
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right
Conservative
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Post by right on Sept 15, 2023 13:37:06 GMT
Am I the only one totally put off by the Yes campaign's video which basically consists of voting Yes because we say it's the progressive thing to do? Well it’s better than ‘Vote Yes you racist piece of shit’. That will be for the Re-Referendum when they didn't get the right answer the first time |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 15, 2023 13:50:25 GMT
So, Silly Walks and Colouring-In it is then? No, you have totally missed the point, and it is a very important point. She is engaged in something very serious that has resulted in all the things that annoy you but which you have not taken the trouble to understand. Which is why she is winning and you are losing. It is why when she loses this particulate little skirmish, it does not matter, it is not a step backwards, it is merely a failure to take that particular step forward and while she was being prevented from taking that step forward one of her colleagues fighting on a different less noticed front took a tiny step forward. You are probably correct in part at least. I may have missed some of the point, if there is what I would term a valid point at all? Which I actually doubt. She is decidedly not engaged in anything that I regard to be serious within my meaning of that word. And absolutely nothing to do with actual importance at all. We are into pretend and bigged up hurts and historic wrongs that concern no one and affect nothing until stirred up with deliberation by an obviously racist academic with too much funding and not enough to do. But, look, hey, this could not be further away or of less interest if it tried. Plus I am old and whatever happens it will not affect me at all by the time fools enact it in a foreign place very far from here. I was just a bit irritated that it had been posted here at all Might one enquire why you have an interest in it? What has it to do with you? Why do you have time to waste on such tripe? Time hanging heavy on your hands again? I have Arsenal, films, wine, craft ales and going to the tailor in my life. Who could want more? |
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Post by uthacalthing on Sept 15, 2023 13:54:42 GMT
I have thirty years left and I have two daughters and she is decidedly very much engaged in that which you regard to be serious within your meaning of that word. Almost everything that is of actual importance.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Sept 17, 2023 9:38:13 GMT
One of the No campaign leaders is now saying that voting No will increase the chances of a treaty, and that Australia should change Australia Day (the latter position especially is regarded as very politically correct). The No campaign does seem to be entering a bit of trouble recently, but it’s probably going to make little difference at this point.
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Post by ntyuk1707 on Sept 19, 2023 0:32:00 GMT
Essential (changes with 2 weeks ago)
No 51% (+2)
Yes 41% (-1)
Dk 9% (-1)
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Sept 19, 2023 17:03:05 GMT
Essential (changes with 2 weeks ago) No 51% (+2) Yes 41% (-1) Dk 9% (-1) 42% Hard No, 28% Hard Yes. The Yes campaign has recently argued that big(ish) rallies show that they can still win this. If even Essential are finding a 14% gap, then it doesn’t look like Yes are even winning the enthusiasm vote nevermind the actual vote. |
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