The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,940
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 28, 2023 10:53:38 GMT
It depends on how it's framed. I suspect that if a Corbyn run was seen as an act of vanity and ego he'd lose. But from people who I know who have lived in his constituency, he has a good reputation as a constituency MP, including among some Conservative supporters. Experiences may vary of course. That confirms the impression I get from other sources. Many left of centre voters will also see it as an ideal opportunity to 'get back at Starmer.' For quite a few the latter has become more important than beating the Tories . I blame Starmer that it has come to this. I think these people barely exist in the real world as opposed to self-reinforcing online crank circles. And to the extent they do, a lot will simply vote Green or even LibDem. Those totally devoured by a twisted, all-consuming hatred of Starmer - to the extent they would quite happily see the Tories win again - are, thankfully, a *tiny* minority. Outside the politically obsessed, the desire to get this government out easily trumps all else. This is backed up electorally by the still almost invariably derisory support for "left of Labour" parties whenever they stand. Prove me wrong. |
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Post by Priceofdawn on Aug 28, 2023 11:42:09 GMT
That confirms the impression I get from other sources. Many left of centre voters will also see it as an ideal opportunity to 'get back at Starmer.' For quite a few the latter has become more important than beating the Tories . I blame Starmer that it has come to this. This is backed up electorally by the still almost invariably derisory support for "left of Labour" parties whenever they stand. Prove me wrong. given that the Greens were one of the big winners in May that seems a pretty dismissive pov |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 28, 2023 11:51:48 GMT
This is backed up electorally by the still almost invariably derisory support for "left of Labour" parties whenever they stand. Prove me wrong. given that the Greens were one of the big winners in May that seems a pretty dismissive pov I suspect that his eminence is talking about 'traditional' left of centre parties, rather than anything green. |
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Post by Priceofdawn on Aug 28, 2023 12:04:07 GMT
given that the Greens were one of the big winners in May that seems a pretty dismissive pov I suspect that his eminence is talking about 'traditional' left of centre parties, rather than anything green. Apart from the Lib Dems when they positioned themselves to the left of labour there certainly has been no modern British equivalent to Podemos, Syriza, etc. except locally ofc like Respect, Aspire, etc. Now the greens are established in that space I can't see an alternative |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2023 12:57:26 GMT
Shapurji Saklatvala was not opposed by the Labour party in Battersea North in 1924. He was wiped out at the following election when Labour put up a candidate. And he’d not been MP for long, IIRC. No veteran MP like JC. |
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Post by Priceofdawn on Aug 28, 2023 14:49:48 GMT
Shapurji Saklatvala was not opposed by the Labour party in Battersea North in 1924. He was wiped out at the following election when Labour put up a candidate. And he’d not been MP for long, IIRC. No veteran MP like JC. it was a different time. A communist wouldn't get elected now |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2023 19:59:48 GMT
Why not? Socialist Campaign Group Labour MPs manage it.
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Post by Price of dawn on Aug 28, 2023 21:07:12 GMT
Why not? Socialist Campaign Group Labour MPs manage it. as labour MPs. If SCG members stood under their own banner they wouldn't win |
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stb12
Top Poster
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Post by stb12 on Aug 28, 2023 21:14:40 GMT
While I don’t doubt that the likes of Corbyn and Diane Abbott have some personal popularity build up over the years, it also can’t be in doubt that their massive votes will have at least a good chunk of people who are simply tribally Labour in very safe seats and vote for the party even if they don’t like or are indifferent to the individual MP
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,940
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 29, 2023 11:04:49 GMT
This is backed up electorally by the still almost invariably derisory support for "left of Labour" parties whenever they stand. Prove me wrong. given that the Greens were one of the big winners in May that seems a pretty dismissive pov Do you think the Greens got their sweeping gains from the Tories in places like Suffolk and Hertfordshire through campaigning like TUSC? No its a bit more nuanced than that. Same with parties like the SNP and Plaid who like to position themselves as left of Labour - when it suits them to do so. |
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pl
Non-Aligned
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Post by pl on Aug 29, 2023 11:15:23 GMT
given that the Greens were one of the big winners in May that seems a pretty dismissive pov Do you think the Greens got their sweeping gains from the Tories in places like Suffolk and Hertfordshire through campaigning like TUSC? No its a bit more nuanced than that. Same with parties like the SNP and Plaid who like to position themselves as left of Labour - when it suits them to do so. Indeed. In places like Hertfordshire the Greens "felt" like 1990s Lib Dems. A Big stress on community involvement, optimistic literature which said very little, a focus on "change" and being anti- housing development. A good chunk of their vote come from anti- housing development conservatives. They are struggling when they realise all of their big "Green" plans require lots of capital and revenue, which simply doesn't exist. |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Aug 29, 2023 11:48:22 GMT
given that the Greens were one of the big winners in May that seems a pretty dismissive pov Do you think the Greens got their sweeping gains from the Tories in places like Suffolk and Hertfordshire through campaigning like TUSC? No its a bit more nuanced than that. Same with parties like the SNP and Plaid who like to position themselves as left of Labour - when it suits them to do so. Yes, the SNP in earlier decades continually tried to chip away at traditional Labour support (and had some success in by-elections at least) while building up heartlands in traditional Tory rural affluent areas like Perthshire and Aberdeenshire |
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Post by mattbewilson on Aug 29, 2023 14:05:35 GMT
given that the Greens were one of the big winners in May that seems a pretty dismissive pov Do you think the Greens got their sweeping gains from the Tories in places like Suffolk and Hertfordshire through campaigning like TUSC? No its a bit more nuanced than that. Same with parties like the SNP and Plaid who like to position themselves as left of Labour - when it suits them to do so. I didn't realise the measure of centre left alternatives was they had to win over people with a tusc platform |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 29, 2023 14:09:33 GMT
Do you think the Greens got their sweeping gains from the Tories in places like Suffolk and Hertfordshire through campaigning like TUSC? No its a bit more nuanced than that. Same with parties like the SNP and Plaid who like to position themselves as left of Labour - when it suits them to do so. I didn't realise the measure of centre left alternatives was they had to win over people with a tusc platform Well they don't have to , but that is usually what they choose to do - or the Respect type platform . |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2023 14:34:33 GMT
The Greens are a protest party who can get votes from Momentum supporters and NIMBYs. UKIP used to fill a protest vote niche and before 2010, so did the Lib Dems.
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Aug 29, 2023 14:40:55 GMT
I believe it’s also correct in saying that the Greens were founded as the Ecology Party by well off environmentalists? The general left wing movement of the party seems to have been more of a gradual thing and maybe not as clear cut as you’d think
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 29, 2023 15:04:39 GMT
I believe it’s also correct in saying that the Greens were founded as the Ecology Party by well off environmentalists? The general left wing movement of the party seems to have been more of a gradual thing and maybe not as clear cut as you’d think We've been through this many times  , but they started originally in Coventry in 1972 as an organisation called "People" . The name was changed to the Ecology party three years later.
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It used to be Vote 2006
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Post by It used to be Vote 2006 on Aug 30, 2023 10:16:23 GMT
I believe it’s also correct in saying that the Greens were founded as the Ecology Party by well off environmentalists? The general left wing movement of the party seems to have been more of a gradual thing and maybe not as clear cut as you’d think Presumably, you're thinking of Teddy Goldsmith, who certainly fits that description. How representative he was of the other early people involved I don't know, but I'd venture it's more than likely the answer would be 'not very'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2023 8:37:39 GMT
Jeremy Corbyn out and about at pro-Palestine rallies, seemingly as energetic as ever. I'm pretty confident he'll stand as an independent here.
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nyx
Non-Aligned
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Post by nyx on Oct 22, 2023 11:45:29 GMT
Jeremy Corbyn out and about at pro-Palestine rallies, seemingly as energetic as ever. I'm pretty confident he'll stand as an independent here. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see him turn his Peace and Justice Project into his own political party in the run up to the election and stand under that label. |
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