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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 7, 2024 8:05:41 GMT
I thought Labour might’ve had a chance in Liversedge and Birstall this year but clearly not. Denby Dale also stands out as a missed opportunity. Have Labour ever taken Liversedge/Birstall/Mirfield in recent (say since 1990) history? They seem to have pretty stubborn Tory votes yet aren’t quite as ‘up there’ as say Holmfirth in terms of affluence, and yet it is Holme Valley S that has rejected the Tories for the past few years. Labour did take Denby Dale a couple of years back with the then cabinet member Will Simpson, not sure what happened this time, perhaps personal votes do matter round here. The proliferation of independents this time I’d say isn’t just over the Middle East issue (see the winner in Dewsbury West as I have mentioned in the WYCA Mayor thread), but I think to doubly give the council a general kicking from ‘North Kirklees’ which has always had a degree of resentment to ‘the south’ aka Huddersfield and environs. A north-south divide of its own here and probably unseen elsewhere - I don’t think there is this much resentment to Halifax in Calderdale, for example. On my side of the Pennines, perhaps Bolton has some things in common here with Farnworth etc being the North Kirklees equivalent, feeling it is too Bolton town centre-centric, then Horwich/Westhoughton being the suburban Holmfirth/Colne Valley equivalents. Whyw ould you think Dewsbury West wasn't connected to Gaza? That is the most heavily Muslim ward in the whole borough
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Kirklees
May 7, 2024 8:09:19 GMT
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Post by Merseymike on May 7, 2024 8:09:19 GMT
Liversedge/Birstall/Mirfield are racially polarised against Labour. Holmfirth is not and increasingly has what I will describe as the ‘hebden bridge demographic’ voter. labour has been doing well in this section of the middle Pennines for a while now. Big personal vote for the Tory in DD very active Cllr. @ing hullenedge who may be able to provide one of his fantastic 1990s maps of Kirklees where Labour had a couple of mega landslides Kirklees is bizarre (for want of a better word) when it comes to local elections. You'd think that 1995 would be the pinnacle of Labour success (18 wins) but not so. The very best year for Labour (19 wins) was 1979. On the day they lost Hudds West and Brighouse & Spenborough there was a sea of red, albeit some close victories, bar for Colne Valley West, Lindley, Mirfield, Kirkburton and Birkby (where they fell 69 votes short). Certainly the ward , Colne Valley West, appears the Hebden Bridge demographic now. The old Birkby ward was Tory, but now, they are nowhere. Greenhead nearly won the Green ward.
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Kirklees
May 7, 2024 8:14:46 GMT
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Post by hullenedge on May 7, 2024 8:14:46 GMT
Kirklees is bizarre (for want of a better word) when it comes to local elections. You'd think that 1995 would be the pinnacle of Labour success (18 wins) but not so. The very best year for Labour (19 wins) was 1979. On the day they lost Hudds West and Brighouse & Spenborough there was a sea of red, albeit some close victories, bar for Colne Valley West, Lindley, Mirfield, Kirkburton and Birkby (where they fell 69 votes short). Certainly the ward , Colne Valley West, appears the Hebden Bridge demographic now. The old Birkby ward was Tory, but now, they are nowhere. Greenhead nearly won the Green ward. Notwithstanding boundary changes it will be interesting to see how wards pan out under a Labour government. Not convinced that the 'Hebden Bridge types' will be loyal to Labour.
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Kirklees
May 7, 2024 8:16:10 GMT
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Post by Merseymike on May 7, 2024 8:16:10 GMT
Have Labour ever taken Liversedge/Birstall/Mirfield in recent (say since 1990) history? They seem to have pretty stubborn Tory votes yet aren’t quite as ‘up there’ as say Holmfirth in terms of affluence, and yet it is Holme Valley S that has rejected the Tories for the past few years. Labour did take Denby Dale a couple of years back with the then cabinet member Will Simpson, not sure what happened this time, perhaps personal votes do matter round here. The proliferation of independents this time I’d say isn’t just over the Middle East issue (see the winner in Dewsbury West as I have mentioned in the WYCA Mayor thread), but I think to doubly give the council a general kicking from ‘North Kirklees’ which has always had a degree of resentment to ‘the south’ aka Huddersfield and environs. A north-south divide of its own here and probably unseen elsewhere - I don’t think there is this much resentment to Halifax in Calderdale, for example. On my side of the Pennines, perhaps Bolton has some things in common here with Farnworth etc being the North Kirklees equivalent, feeling it is too Bolton town centre-centric, then Horwich/Westhoughton being the suburban Holmfirth/Colne Valley equivalents. Whyw ould you think Dewsbury West wasn't connected to Gaza? That is the most heavily Muslim ward in the whole borough It's both. The candidate won, she is involved with poverty issues and also supports Palestine. The Labour councillor in 2023 resigned because of Palestine - he was a very good councillor and the two of them work together.
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Post by bjornhattan on May 7, 2024 8:22:48 GMT
Dewsbury East has the smallest Muslim population in that area (19%), and there was no Independent candidate. The Dewsbury area ward which voted for the right wing populist in 2019 is the only one Labour held (and quite comfortably)… Even more vivid (though more distant now) is 2006 - when Dewsbury East was a BNP ward surrounded entirely by Labour wards. Heckmondwike was BNP as well, though I notice that it was the only independent gain where Labour very nearly held on. The point about contrasting Mirfield and the Spen wards with the Holme Valley is interesting. There is certainly a big difference in atmosphere between North and South Kirklees - the latter feels like it's doing rather better economically, both in terms of the valley communities (which do seem to be going the way of Hebden Bridge) but also Huddersfield itself which seems to be a big enough commercial centre to sustain a fair amount of trade. There's not the same sense of decline (and frankly decay) evident further north, where towns like Batley and Dewsbury really do feel like they're on their uppers. Huddersfield also feels less segregated and like there are fewer ethnic tensions than the Heavy Woollen District (and while the Muslim vote perhaps swung one or two wards, it wasn't really as decisive as further north). Perhaps some of this is down to differences in demographics: Huddersfield seems more diverse and there was historically a significant Caribbean community - most clearly illustrated by a extremely large mixed race community in some areas of northern Huddersfield (12.4% in Deighton which is the highest figure in Britain!). So there may not the same polarisation you get further north within Kirklees, or indeed elsewhere in West Yorkshire.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on May 7, 2024 10:46:25 GMT
I am sure that it is the key talking point in every pub in the District. Every pub, no...but I think edgbaston sums up - four Independents in Dewsbury and Batley, and two Huddersfield wards - Palestine is real. I am sure it will have a major impact on the foreign policy of Kirklees Council.
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Kirklees
May 7, 2024 11:15:01 GMT
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Post by Merseymike on May 7, 2024 11:15:01 GMT
Every pub, no...but I think edgbaston sums up - four Independents in Dewsbury and Batley, and two Huddersfield wards - Palestine is real. I am sure it will have a major impact on the foreign policy of Kirklees Council. Kirklees now has NOC. Like it or not, councillors decide, because some voters care about Palestine.
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edgbaston
Labour
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Post by edgbaston on May 7, 2024 11:25:51 GMT
Every pub, no...but I think edgbaston sums up - four Independents in Dewsbury and Batley, and two Huddersfield wards - Palestine is real. I am sure it will have a major impact on the foreign policy of Kirklees Council. You have a Ukrainian flag as your profile picture. It is clearly a foreign policy issue you care about. I agree Kirklees council may not have any influence over the situation in Gaza, but people are allowed to care about foreign policy issues and vote based on that. Ridiculing their decision is a sure fire way to not win them back.
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Post by borisminor on May 7, 2024 11:47:41 GMT
Have Labour ever taken Liversedge/Birstall/Mirfield in recent (say since 1990) history? They seem to have pretty stubborn Tory votes yet aren’t quite as ‘up there’ as say Holmfirth in terms of affluence, and yet it is Holme Valley S that has rejected the Tories for the past few years. Labour did take Denby Dale a couple of years back with the then cabinet member Will Simpson, not sure what happened this time, perhaps personal votes do matter round here. The proliferation of independents this time I’d say isn’t just over the Middle East issue (see the winner in Dewsbury West as I have mentioned in the WYCA Mayor thread), but I think to doubly give the council a general kicking from ‘North Kirklees’ which has always had a degree of resentment to ‘the south’ aka Huddersfield and environs. A north-south divide of its own here and probably unseen elsewhere - I don’t think there is this much resentment to Halifax in Calderdale, for example. On my side of the Pennines, perhaps Bolton has some things in common here with Farnworth etc being the North Kirklees equivalent, feeling it is too Bolton town centre-centric, then Horwich/Westhoughton being the suburban Holmfirth/Colne Valley equivalents. Liversedge/Birstall/Mirfield are racially polarised against Labour. Holmfirth is not and increasingly has what I will describe as the ‘hebden bridge demographic’ voter. labour has been doing well in this section of the middle Pennines for a while now. Big personal vote for the Tory in DD very active Cllr. @ing hullenedge who may be able to provide one of his fantastic 1990s maps of Kirklees where Labour had a couple of mega landslides We were targeted here in Mirfield in a GOTPV campaign by Labour but in reality they had no chance especially when the incumbent up for election is probably one of the most popular figures locally and has a clear personal vote. I would be shocked if Liversedge and Gomersal, and Birstall and Birkenshaw went Labour any time soon. Although the towns in those wards might vote Labour I would imagine the villages are sufficiently Conservative and anti-Labour run council where there is a clear perception they favour southern over north Kirklees. I don't have box counts to confirm this though.
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Post by Ron Swanson on May 7, 2024 12:08:05 GMT
The Dewsbury area ward which voted for the right wing populist in 2019 is the only one Labour held (and quite comfortably)… Even more vivid (though more distant now) is 2006 - when Dewsbury East was a BNP ward surrounded entirely by Labour wards. Heckmondwike was BNP as well, though I notice that it was the only independent gain where Labour very nearly held on. The point about contrasting Mirfield and the Spen wards with the Holme Valley is interesting. There is certainly a big difference in atmosphere between North and South Kirklees - the latter feels like it's doing rather better economically, both in terms of the valley communities (which do seem to be going the way of Hebden Bridge) but also Huddersfield itself which seems to be a big enough commercial centre to sustain a fair amount of trade. There's not the same sense of decline (and frankly decay) evident further north, where towns like Batley and Dewsbury really do feel like they're on their uppers. Huddersfield also feels less segregated and like there are fewer ethnic tensions than the Heavy Woollen District (and while the Muslim vote perhaps swung one or two wards, it wasn't really as decisive as further north). Perhaps some of this is down to differences in demographics: Huddersfield seems more diverse and there was historically a significant Caribbean community - most clearly illustrated by a extremely large mixed race community in some areas of northern Huddersfield (12.4% in Deighton which is the highest figure in Britain!). So there may not the same polarisation you get further north within Kirklees, or indeed elsewhere in West Yorkshire. Dewsbury town centre is just a dump, no other word for the place. Lots of nice, historic buildings - in and around the town hall area, arcades and stuff... that just need a bit of TLC and some new businesses to open up... whilst I don't recall Batley being much different to how it is now, frankly. Friends of mine moved from Horsforth to Mirfield and love it there - neither would move back to Leeds I don't think. Both Dewsbury and Batley have some areas in them that on the face of it appear to be nice places to live - Shawcross, Chidswell areas seem alright, as does 'upper' Batley. But elsewhere... House prices in the area are weird, a mate flogged a three bed semi on the outskirts of Dewsbury Moor and got a nice end terrace in Liversedge for a bit of loose change extra.
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YL
Non-Aligned
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Post by YL on May 7, 2024 22:01:09 GMT
The Dewsbury area ward which voted for the right wing populist in 2019 is the only one Labour held (and quite comfortably)… Even more vivid (though more distant now) is 2006 - when Dewsbury East was a BNP ward surrounded entirely by Labour wards. Heckmondwike was BNP as well, though I notice that it was the only independent gain where Labour very nearly held on. The point about contrasting Mirfield and the Spen wards with the Holme Valley is interesting. There is certainly a big difference in atmosphere between North and South Kirklees - the latter feels like it's doing rather better economically, both in terms of the valley communities (which do seem to be going the way of Hebden Bridge) but also Huddersfield itself which seems to be a big enough commercial centre to sustain a fair amount of trade. There's not the same sense of decline (and frankly decay) evident further north, where towns like Batley and Dewsbury really do feel like they're on their uppers. Huddersfield also feels less segregated and like there are fewer ethnic tensions than the Heavy Woollen District (and while the Muslim vote perhaps swung one or two wards, it wasn't really as decisive as further north). Perhaps some of this is down to differences in demographics: Huddersfield seems more diverse and there was historically a significant Caribbean community - most clearly illustrated by a extremely large mixed race community in some areas of northern Huddersfield (12.4% in Deighton which is the highest figure in Britain!). So there may not the same polarisation you get further north within Kirklees, or indeed elsewhere in West Yorkshire. Is anywhere in the UK outside Northern Ireland as ethnically polarised as the Heavy Woollen District? I tend to feel that it would have been better to have a Huddersfield-based borough including the town, the Holme and Colne valleys, Kirkburton and Denby Dale, which would be on the small side for a Met Borough but bigger than Calderdale, and a Heavy Woollen District borough which could also have included some parts of the HWD which ended up in neighbouring boroughs.
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Post by hullenedge on May 8, 2024 7:08:17 GMT
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on May 8, 2024 8:05:05 GMT
Even more vivid (though more distant now) is 2006 - when Dewsbury East was a BNP ward surrounded entirely by Labour wards. Heckmondwike was BNP as well, though I notice that it was the only independent gain where Labour very nearly held on. The point about contrasting Mirfield and the Spen wards with the Holme Valley is interesting. There is certainly a big difference in atmosphere between North and South Kirklees - the latter feels like it's doing rather better economically, both in terms of the valley communities (which do seem to be going the way of Hebden Bridge) but also Huddersfield itself which seems to be a big enough commercial centre to sustain a fair amount of trade. There's not the same sense of decline (and frankly decay) evident further north, where towns like Batley and Dewsbury really do feel like they're on their uppers. Huddersfield also feels less segregated and like there are fewer ethnic tensions than the Heavy Woollen District (and while the Muslim vote perhaps swung one or two wards, it wasn't really as decisive as further north). Perhaps some of this is down to differences in demographics: Huddersfield seems more diverse and there was historically a significant Caribbean community - most clearly illustrated by a extremely large mixed race community in some areas of northern Huddersfield (12.4% in Deighton which is the highest figure in Britain!). So there may not the same polarisation you get further north within Kirklees, or indeed elsewhere in West Yorkshire. Is anywhere in the UK outside Northern Ireland as ethnically polarised as the Heavy Woollen District? I tend to feel that it would have been better to have a Huddersfield-based borough including the town, the Holme and Colne valleys, Kirkburton and Denby Dale, which would be on the small side for a Met Borough but bigger than Calderdale, and a Heavy Woollen District borough which could also have included some parts of the HWD which ended up in neighbouring boroughs. I wouldn’t be surprised if such a borough was proposed and has been proposed since 1974 as soon as Kirklees was born! Given the current trend in local government is towards mergers, a merger with Calderdale would probably be more likely than a split!… Four Rivers? Huddsfax?
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
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Post by Chris from Brum on May 8, 2024 8:34:04 GMT
Calderlees? Kirkdale?
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
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Post by Crimson King on May 8, 2024 8:40:50 GMT
Greater Brighouse
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 8, 2024 8:58:39 GMT
As a good neutral name, why not call it after a small semi-rural area just to the west of Dewsbury?
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Kirklees
May 8, 2024 9:04:20 GMT
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Post by hullenedge on May 8, 2024 9:04:20 GMT
South Pennines with our own elected mayor. (The WYCA is, as expected, too Leeds-centric). Three councils as per YL with Ossett snaffled from Wakefield.
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Post by johnloony on May 8, 2024 9:37:39 GMT
As a good neutral name, why not call it after a small semi-rural area just to the west of Dewsbury? Morfield? Crow Nest? Ponderosa? Thornhills? Roberttown? Which one?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 8, 2024 9:42:24 GMT
As a good neutral name, why not call it after a small semi-rural area just to the west of Dewsbury? Morfield? Crow Nest? Ponderosa? Thornhills? Roberttown? Which one? I was thinking of this one.
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Kirklees
May 8, 2024 9:45:55 GMT
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Post by Ron Swanson on May 8, 2024 9:45:55 GMT
South Pennines with our own elected mayor. (The WYCA is, as expected, too Leeds-centric). Three councils as per YL with Ossett snaffled from Wakefield. Ossett is an odd inclusion in Wakefield I think.
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