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Post by andrew111 on May 24, 2022 20:12:22 GMT
Is there a name for an ultra-right-wing libertarian government from an organisational point of view? Anarcho-fascist perhaps??
The moment one tries to make true Libertarianism 'organisational' is the beginning of the slippery slope of hypocrisy and becoming everything one dislikes. This is why the ideology - *my* ideology - will probably only ever exist in theory and concept. Not only does nobody have the guts to try it, but anyone who did would feel instinctively that they didn't have the right to do so. It's a fundamental paradox.
The modern-day Right generally understand and accept this, in the way that, say, early 20th century Russians or Cromwellites did not, hence in practice we tend towards pragmatism, compromise and settling for the 'least bad' rather than striving for something always likely to be out of reach in the name of ideological purity.
Consequently politics is reduced to what is the 'least bad' option realistically on the table, and what are the optimal compromises to be agreed upon.
Well, the problem is that if you remove govt control, organisations like the Mafia, or the Soviets, or the Church, tend to fill the vacuum. And before you know it, everyone's life is being controlled again, one way or another. The human race just seems to evolve towards hierarchy. I think mostly we all just try to pragmatically survive as best we can. |
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Post by aargauer on May 24, 2022 20:24:56 GMT
Ben Walker, the UKIP Party Chairman, has had his nomination papers receipted. So UKIP will - likewise Wakefield - be represented. £1000 they will never see again. Will you see yours again? |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on May 24, 2022 20:44:50 GMT
The moment one tries to make true Libertarianism 'organisational' is the beginning of the slippery slope of hypocrisy and becoming everything one dislikes. This is why the ideology - *my* ideology - will probably only ever exist in theory and concept. Not only does nobody have the guts to try it, but anyone who did would feel instinctively that they didn't have the right to do so. It's a fundamental paradox.
The modern-day Right generally understand and accept this, in the way that, say, early 20th century Russians or Cromwellites did not, hence in practice we tend towards pragmatism, compromise and settling for the 'least bad' rather than striving for something always likely to be out of reach in the name of ideological purity.
Consequently politics is reduced to what is the 'least bad' option realistically on the table, and what are the optimal compromises to be agreed upon.
Well, the problem is that if you remove govt control, organisations like the Mafia, or the Soviets, or the Church, tend to fill the vacuum. And before you know it, everyone's life is being controlled again, one way or another. The human race just seems to evolve towards hierarchy. I think mostly we all just try to pragmatically survive as best we can. The Mafia are a very good example of just that phenomenon. As far as anyone can tell, the removal of Roman government from Britannia seems to have given us a range of warlords of uncertain origin, whose modus operandi appears to have resembled the Mafia in many respects. |
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johnloony
Conservative
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Post by johnloony on May 24, 2022 21:51:46 GMT
Nor, presumably, will your sword sleep in your hand.... Glad somebody got it... ”Somebody”? Most people on this forum got it, probably. It reminds me of the book by Simon Heffer. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on May 24, 2022 23:01:58 GMT
Theres a gaping hole for a free market party in British politics. If PR ever comes in, we will likely get that option, even if it's only good for 10 or 15%. I think a left socialist party would probably get about the same vote, which would at least provide more genuine choice. Do you think such a party should start organising now or wait until PR comes into force? |
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johnloony
Conservative
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Post by johnloony on May 24, 2022 23:29:13 GMT
I think a left socialist party would probably get about the same vote, which would at least provide more genuine choice. Do you think such a party should start organising now or wait until PR comes into force? ”A” party? As if there aren’t already “some” left-socialist parties already 😄 SLP SWP WRP WPB SPGB SP CPB SSP CPGBML RCPBML Solidarity NCPB … |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 7,084 
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Post by maxque on May 25, 2022 0:26:51 GMT
£1000 they will never see again. Will you see yours again? Well, I'm pretty sure they will at least get 500 back. |
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Merseymike
Independent
Don't vote. It only encourages them.
Posts: 37,214
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Post by Merseymike on May 25, 2022 8:50:16 GMT
I think a left socialist party would probably get about the same vote, which would at least provide more genuine choice. Do you think such a party should start organising now or wait until PR comes into force? Wait until electoral reform. It's pointless otherwise. And the main component would need to be the current Labour left, not the myriad of revolutionary party-lets, for it to have any credibility. It's really not that unusual, looking at European party structures |
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CatholicLeft
Co-operative Party
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 4,296
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Post by CatholicLeft on May 25, 2022 10:59:54 GMT
Do you think such a party should start organising now or wait until PR comes into force? ”A” party? As if there aren’t already “some” left-socialist parties already 😄 SLP SWP WRP WPB SPGB SP CPB SSP CPGBML RCPBML Solidarity NCPB … "Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whiddon, Harry Hawke, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all!" |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 21,554
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Post by neilm on May 25, 2022 11:05:04 GMT
Do you think such a party should start organising now or wait until PR comes into force? ”A” party? As if there aren’t already “some” left-socialist parties already 😄 SLP SWP WRP WPB SPGB SP CPB SSP CPGBML RCPBML Solidarity NCPB … Although those aren't serious parties and don't offer anything of any interest to the electorate. Or, at least, don't package their offer very well. |
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Post by catfest on May 25, 2022 11:12:06 GMT
`. . . Yeah, but. Everything ends up in WPB. (WastePaper Bin, anyone?)
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group" - Douglas Adams
Posts: 7,489
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Post by Chris from Brum on May 25, 2022 12:14:08 GMT
”A” party? As if there aren’t already “some” left-socialist parties already 😄 SLP SWP WRP WPB SPGB SP CPB SSP CPGBML RCPBML Solidarity NCPB … Although those aren't serious parties and don't offer anything of any interest to the electorate. Or, at least, don't package their offer very well. ... and they rarely put themselves in front of the electorate anyway. |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 2,794
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Post by YL on May 25, 2022 16:52:35 GMT
SOPNJordan Donaghue-Morgan (Heritage Party) Andy Foan (Reform UK) Richard Foord (Lib Dem) Helen Hurford (Conservative) Liz Pole (Labour) Frankie Rufolo (For Britain) Ben Walker (UKIP) Gill Westcott (Green)
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peterl
Green
God Save the Queen!
Posts: 6,461
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Post by peterl on May 25, 2022 16:55:05 GMT
Pleased to see so many right wing splinter groups ready to split the Tory vote!
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 25, 2022 17:12:00 GMT
Pleased to see so many right wing splinter groups ready to split the Tory vote! Surprising to see someone who was a UKIP activist in the past offer up such a simplistic view of the origins or preferences of people who vote for UKIP and other right wing parties. I don't suppose at that time you would have voted Conservative in the absence of a UKIP candidate? (or when you were a member of the BNP for that matter) |
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peterl
Green
God Save the Queen!
Posts: 6,461
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Post by peterl on May 25, 2022 17:12:47 GMT
Pleased to see so many right wing splinter groups ready to split the Tory vote! Surprising to see someone who was a UKIP activist in the past offer up such a simplistic view of the origins or preferences of people who vote for UKIP and other right wing parties. I don't suppose at that time you would have voted Conservative in the absence of a UKIP candidate? (or when you were a member of the BNP for that matter) I have never voted Conservative. Or BNP for that matter. |
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European Lefty
Labour
Reminder: the "red wall" isn't real
Posts: 4,080
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Post by European Lefty on May 25, 2022 17:15:23 GMT
There are large areas of the South West where the presence of UKIP would historically have hurt the LibDems more than anyone else.
Whether or not this is still true is possibly another matter
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 9,865
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Post by Khunanup on May 25, 2022 17:52:20 GMT
Pleased to see so many right wing splinter groups ready to split the Tory vote! Surprising to see someone who was a UKIP activist in the past offer up such a simplistic view of the origins or preferences of people who vote for UKIP and other right wing parties. I don't suppose at that time you would have voted Conservative in the absence of a UKIP candidate? (or when you were a member of the BNP for that matter) It was Richard Cromwell who was BNP. |
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Post by Richard Cromwell on May 25, 2022 18:31:28 GMT
Surprising to see someone who was a UKIP activist in the past offer up such a simplistic view of the origins or preferences of people who vote for UKIP and other right wing parties. I don't suppose at that time you would have voted Conservative in the absence of a UKIP candidate? (or when you were a member of the BNP for that matter) It was Richard Cromwell who was BNP. I have never been a member of the BNP. At the time you were thinking of I was a member of the Green Party (possibly lapsed - as happens from time to time). Still a far-right piece of shit, of course, but not a member of the BNP. |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
There are so many things for which I'd commit suicide; the problem is you only get to do it once.
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Post by sirbenjamin on May 25, 2022 18:56:03 GMT
I have never been a member of the BNP. At the time you were thinking of I was a member of the Green Party (possibly lapsed - as happens from time to time). Still a far-right piece of shit, of course, but not a member of the BNP.
Somebody truly far-right wouldn't want anything to do with the BNP.
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