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Post by heslingtonian on May 23, 2022 8:09:43 GMT
Those two are spiritually more UKIP than traditional Conservatives. As, collectively, are the current cabinet Some undoubtedly, not all.
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Post by london(ex)tory on May 23, 2022 8:43:48 GMT
Those two are spiritually more UKIP than traditional Conservatives. As, collectively, are the current cabinet If that was even close to being remotely true I would still be a Tory member.
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Post by carlton43 on May 23, 2022 9:19:06 GMT
I'm not really sure that is the case. A lot of them seem to have no ideological centre at all. I was thinking of outcomes rather than any beliefs that might drive outcomes. I've been contemplating the accusation that the current government is fascist. People who make those accusations cite actions by the current lot that do look quite fascist. Reading up on what fascism is and isn't, I've seen several sources that say fascists believe in this or that. Boris doesn't believe, except in having the top job. Government actions seem like tactics rather than beliefs, so I conclude that they're not fascist, they just do some of the same things. On Kipperness though, to be in the current cabinet you have to be a true Brexit believer. You have to be a full blooded right winger with hints of little Englander. Individually they might not be model UKIPers but collectively, they do just what I'd imagine a UKIP cabinet would do. Oh! If only you were right! But of course, you are not!
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on May 23, 2022 9:56:37 GMT
It seems like the Tories have absorbed their lessons from elsewhere. This is going to be an interesting by election. I know the bookies have us a favourites but it is a mountain to climb. We won Chesham and Shropshire because the Tories were asleep. They're very much not this time. Punters think we will win this one because we won the other two. My feeling is that we'll fall just short. Somerton and Frome on the other hand is one we'll win. 3 our of 4 isn't bad. Tories seem to have picked a decent candidate for this one, I agree - but so have you. At any rate the Tory choice here, compared to Wakefield, answers the question that quite a few were asking as to which of the two they were going to prioritise defending - though of course that would make a defeat for them in this one all the more painful. Not posted on here yet, but it appears Labour have again chosen their standard bearer in this seat from the last GE.
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Post by woollyliberal on May 23, 2022 10:17:12 GMT
Lots of Reform / Continuity UKIP pushback against Johnsonite Tories. Is it that the Hard(ish) Brexit they delivered is not the Brexit you voted for, or you think that a ReformKIP government would be in some way competent?
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Post by stb12 on May 23, 2022 10:29:20 GMT
Lots of Reform / Continuity UKIP pushback against Johnsonite Tories. Is it that the Hard(ish) Brexit they delivered is not the Brexit you voted for, or you think that a ReformKIP government would be in some way competent? I think it’s pretty well established that while Johnson was seen as a necessity to get Brexit over the line all wings of the party are quite suspicious and untrusting of him
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Post by aargauer on May 23, 2022 11:17:15 GMT
Those two are spiritually more UKIP than traditional Conservatives. As, collectively, are the current cabinet Part UKIP part SDP.
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Post by greenhert on May 23, 2022 11:33:36 GMT
UKIP have announced that Ben Walker, UKIP's current chairman, will be their candidate in this by-election:
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Post by greenhert on May 23, 2022 11:35:33 GMT
Labour have selected Liz Pole as their candidate for this by-election:
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andrea
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Post by andrea on May 23, 2022 12:51:16 GMT
Pole was the Labour candidate in 2019 GE too.
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Post by finsobruce on May 23, 2022 12:54:37 GMT
Pole was the Labour candidate in 2019 GE too. So Pole has been to the poll before.
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Post by evergreenadam on May 23, 2022 12:56:12 GMT
Feel sorry for their former students. They certainly don’t represent teachers and would probably be shunned by their former profession, I’m sure Tory-voting state school teachers will be rare. Similarly, the few former NHS workers in the Conservative party are also odd, the member for Crewe and Nantwich is particularly annoying and really belongs in the same category as the above two. Until 1992, most teachers voted Conservative. As did architects, which now seems very strange! The professions voted Tory en masse, presumably for class reasons.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on May 23, 2022 13:21:42 GMT
People who are members of one party but based on their social background ‘should’ be voting for the opposite party are often the most ideologically extreme. A good example is black Republican politicians in the US. The perception of Republican racism along with near universal family and community support for Democrats means that the very small minority of blacks who are active in the Republican Party tend to be very conservative (even most moderately conservative blacks vote Democrat). A UK example could be all the no-hoper constituencies that Corbyn swept in 2015 where only the faithful/most left wing people were likely to join the Labour Party.
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batman
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Post by batman on May 23, 2022 13:32:34 GMT
Lots of Reform / Continuity UKIP pushback against Johnsonite Tories. Is it that the Hard(ish) Brexit they delivered is not the Brexit you voted for, or you think that a ReformKIP government would be in some way competent? I think it’s pretty well established that while Johnson was seen as a necessity to get Brexit over the line all wings of the party are quite suspicious and untrusting of him hard to imagine why anyone would find it difficult to trust Johnson....
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Post by london(ex)tory on May 23, 2022 14:17:36 GMT
Lots of Reform / Continuity UKIP pushback against Johnsonite Tories. Is it that the Hard(ish) Brexit they delivered is not the Brexit you voted for, or you think that a ReformKIP government would be in some way competent? I’m broadly comfortable with Boris’ Brexit (once Northern Ireland is sorted out). It’s high taxes, net zero, health fascism and general contempt for working people that’s keeping me away from the Tories.
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Post by evergreenadam on May 23, 2022 15:59:40 GMT
Lots of Reform / Continuity UKIP pushback against Johnsonite Tories. Is it that the Hard(ish) Brexit they delivered is not the Brexit you voted for, or you think that a ReformKIP government would be in some way competent? I’m broadly comfortable with Boris’ Brexit (once Northern Ireland is sorted out). It’s high taxes, net zero, health fascism and general contempt for working people that’s keeping me away from the Tories. I thought they were on the side of hard working families? 😂
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Post by evergreenadam on May 23, 2022 16:02:55 GMT
People who are members of one party but based on their social background ‘should’ be voting for the opposite party are often the most ideologically extreme. A good example is black Republican politicians in the US. The perception of Republican racism along with near universal family and community support for Democrats means that the very small minority of blacks who are active in the Republican Party tend to be very conservative (even most moderately conservative blacks vote Democrat). A UK example could be all the no-hoper constituencies that Corbyn swept in 2015 where only the faithful/most left wing people were likely to join the Labour Party. Yes, the Tories attract their fare share of contrarians who wind up at lot of people and make lots of noise but without achieving much than argument for argument’s sake.
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Post by aargauer on May 23, 2022 17:03:06 GMT
People who are members of one party but based on their social background ‘should’ be voting for the opposite party are often the most ideologically extreme. A good example is black Republican politicians in the US. The perception of Republican racism along with near universal family and community support for Democrats means that the very small minority of blacks who are active in the Republican Party tend to be very conservative (even most moderately conservative blacks vote Democrat). A UK example could be all the no-hoper constituencies that Corbyn swept in 2015 where only the faithful/most left wing people were likely to join the Labour Party. Yes, the Tories attract their fare share of contrarians who wind up at lot of people and make lots of noise but without achieving much than argument for argument’s sake. I think politics in general attracts this sort!
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sirbenjamin
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Post by sirbenjamin on May 23, 2022 20:19:11 GMT
I’m broadly comfortable with Boris’ Brexit (once Northern Ireland is sorted out). It’s high taxes, net zero, health fascism and general contempt for working people that’s keeping me away from the Tories. I thought they were on the side of hard working families? 😂 Why should governments be, purport to be, or strive to be on anyone's 'side'?!? This is why I'm so disillusioned with the whole lot. I want my government/state to be as small, as morally neutral, as inactive and as non-interventionist as possible. With the possible exception of crime, I don't want policies and laws based on 'taking sides', not even mine!
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Post by greenchristian on May 23, 2022 20:45:21 GMT
I thought they were on the side of hard working families? 😂 Why should governments be, purport to be, or strive to be on anyone's 'side'?!? This is why I'm so disillusioned with the whole lot. I want my government/state to be as small, as morally neutral, as inactive and as non-interventionist as possible. With the possible exception of crime, I don't want policies and laws based on 'taking sides', not even mine! The issue with that is that such a minimalist government is de facto on the "side" of whichever group of people happens to be rich and powerful in their country.
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