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Post by greenchristian on Apr 13, 2022 11:43:43 GMT
The remarks that removed a candidate at the last minute in 2019 are part of the reason for the by-election, since without them Wakefield would not have had an MP who was convicted of sexual crimes against a minor. Are those remarks and the discussion more suited to the 2019 Wakefield thread though, whilst it’s highly likely there will be a by-election, currently there is not. Detailed discussion probably belongs over there (and is currently happening), but having at least a basic summary here is entirely relevant. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 11:46:34 GMT
Maybe if the by-election is called we can start a new thread, so that at least the start of the tread will be about the 2022 contest not the candidate who never was in 2019. The remarks that removed a candidate at the last minute in 2019 are part of the reason for the by-election, since without them Wakefield would not have had an MP who was convicted of sexual crimes against a minor. Well then maybe I should start a different thread that is actually about the (probable) by-election, the subsequent campaign, result predictions, and the result itself. Then we can leave this thread to the redundant discussion about the 2019 selection process and it can be moved by the mod team to the ‘General UK Politics’ section. |
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Post by greenchristian on Apr 13, 2022 11:52:36 GMT
The remarks that removed a candidate at the last minute in 2019 are part of the reason for the by-election, since without them Wakefield would not have had an MP who was convicted of sexual crimes against a minor. Well then maybe I should start a different thread that is actually about the (probable) by-election, the subsequent campaign, result predictions, and the result itself. Then we can leave this thread to the redundant discussion about the 2019 selection process and it can be moved by the mod team to the ‘General UK Politics’ section. Most of the discussion in this thread about the 2019 de-selection seems to be about whether any posts about it belong in this thread. Almost all of the actual discussion about the 2019 de-selection is happening in the 2019 Wakefield thread. |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 13, 2022 11:54:03 GMT
That is a classic and very tortured mixed metaphor. Oh I’m like Jim Hacker. All for tortured, mixed metaphors. I’m happy to have a Bernard to point it out though. 😉 I shall now forever see you as a 'Jim'. And I quite like the thought of being a 'Bernard'. I was a 'Bernard' for a while to a Council Group leader and frequent Mayor, called Bernard! |
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Post by markgoodair on Apr 13, 2022 13:18:09 GMT
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Apr 13, 2022 14:56:21 GMT
Very little positive reason to vote for either of them.
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Post by markgoodair on Apr 13, 2022 15:00:31 GMT
yep, we have seen that already, maybe not on this thread. I have to confess I am not all that offended by that, but for those who are, can I ask how it compares with filling a 15-year-old boy full of drink and groping him up? You, Mark, are of course offended by a Conservative candidate breathing, but then as your anxious wait to see how many deposits your party have saved will show, yours are often super-minority opinions At least I can dwell in the absolute guaranteed satisfaction that we will never see a Conservative represent Wakefield again. |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Apr 13, 2022 15:08:09 GMT
Is the question in the poll meant to be looked at retrospectively or knowing only what we knew in 2019?
I’m assuming the poll was added to make those Conservatives who supported him so much and now feel foolish feel better?
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 13, 2022 15:33:58 GMT
yep, we have seen that already, maybe not on this thread. I have to confess I am not all that offended by that, but for those who are, can I ask how it compares with filling a 15-year-old boy full of drink and groping him up? You, Mark, are of course offended by a Conservative candidate breathing, but then as your anxious wait to see how many deposits your party have saved will show, yours are often super-minority opinions At least I can dwell in the absolute guaranteed satisfaction that we will never see a Conservative represent Wakefield again. That is an absurd statement and a moment of reflection by you would of course see that. It is impossible to know what the future holds. Some of the very safest seats for each of the majors have moved to the other side. Just consider London, Liverpool and recently Stoke. I can see Wakefield being lost to Labour very soon but being won back again even in my lifetime. It is a possibility. It only takes a Falklands, a Brexit, a Corbyn or a major boundary change, or a demographic shift in population or gentrification of some areas. Nothing is forever. |
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Post by markgoodair on Apr 13, 2022 15:36:27 GMT
At least I can dwell in the absolute guaranteed satisfaction that we will never see a Conservative represent Wakefield again. That is an absurd statement and a moment of reflection by you would of course see that. It is impossible to know what the future holds. Some of the very safest seats for each of the majors have moved to the other side. Just consider London, Liverpool and recently Stoke. I can see Wakefield being lost to Labour very soon but being won back again even in my lifetime. It is a possibility. It only takes a Falklands, a Brexit, a Corbyn or a major boundary change, or a demographic shift in population or gentrification of some areas. Nothing is forever. The Tories put up a nonce. Mud sticks. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Apr 13, 2022 15:39:38 GMT
That is an absurd statement and a moment of reflection by you would of course see that. It is impossible to know what the future holds. Some of the very safest seats for each of the majors have moved to the other side. Just consider London, Liverpool and recently Stoke. I can see Wakefield being lost to Labour very soon but being won back again even in my lifetime. It is a possibility. It only takes a Falklands, a Brexit, a Corbyn or a major boundary change, or a demographic shift in population or gentrification of some areas. Nothing is forever. The Tories put up a nonce. Mud sticks. But time heals all wounds. |
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Post by Merseymike on Apr 13, 2022 15:43:36 GMT
Clearly had the allegations been revealed in advance of the selection then he would not have been selected.
I'm not surprised that nothing was done in the run up to the election once the selection had taken place.
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 13, 2022 15:48:54 GMT
That is an absurd statement and a moment of reflection by you would of course see that. It is impossible to know what the future holds. Some of the very safest seats for each of the majors have moved to the other side. Just consider London, Liverpool and recently Stoke. I can see Wakefield being lost to Labour very soon but being won back again even in my lifetime. It is a possibility. It only takes a Falklands, a Brexit, a Corbyn or a major boundary change, or a demographic shift in population or gentrification of some areas. Nothing is forever. The Tories put up a nonce. Mud sticks. You have an inimitable style and way with words and a brilliant political analysis. |
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Post by stb12 on Apr 13, 2022 17:03:37 GMT
That is an absurd statement and a moment of reflection by you would of course see that. It is impossible to know what the future holds. Some of the very safest seats for each of the majors have moved to the other side. Just consider London, Liverpool and recently Stoke. I can see Wakefield being lost to Labour very soon but being won back again even in my lifetime. It is a possibility. It only takes a Falklands, a Brexit, a Corbyn or a major boundary change, or a demographic shift in population or gentrification of some areas. Nothing is forever. The Tories put up a nonce. Mud sticks. Life and politics is rarely that simple |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 20:04:34 GMT
yep, we have seen that already, maybe not on this thread. I have to confess I am not all that offended by that, but for those who are, can I ask how it compares with filling a 15-year-old boy full of drink and groping him up? You, Mark, are of course offended by a Conservative candidate breathing, but then as your anxious wait to see how many deposits your party have saved will show, yours are often super-minority opinions At least I can dwell in the absolute guaranteed satisfaction that we will never see a Conservative represent Wakefield again. That seems an extraordinarily foolish 'prediction' to make. I'll tell Labour canvassers next time I see them that there's no need for them to bother. They'll appreciate the heads up, I'm sure. |
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Post by greenchristian on Apr 13, 2022 20:10:20 GMT
yep, we have seen that already, maybe not on this thread. I have to confess I am not all that offended by that, but for those who are, can I ask how it compares with filling a 15-year-old boy full of drink and groping him up? You, Mark, are of course offended by a Conservative candidate breathing, but then as your anxious wait to see how many deposits your party have saved will show, yours are often super-minority opinions At least I can dwell in the absolute guaranteed satisfaction that we will never see a Conservative represent Wakefield again. Never is a very long time. Yes, this scandal is going to hurt them in the seat for several election cycles. But do you really think that a Conservative candidate in 40 years time will be hurt by a scandal that's barely even a memory to most of the electorate, and clearly has absolutely nothing to do with them? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Apr 13, 2022 20:30:21 GMT
At least I can dwell in the absolute guaranteed satisfaction that we will never see a Conservative represent Wakefield again. Never is a very long time. Yes, this scandal is going to hurt them in the seat for several election cycles. But do you really think that a Conservative candidate in 40 years time will be hurt by a scandal that's barely even a memory to most of the electorate, and clearly has absolutely nothing to do with them? I wouldn't even place it at "several" cycles. I can recall numerous cases where there were "I'll never vote xxx again, because of yyy" stramashes which (outside a handful of monomaniacs) were forgotten within a single cycle - the Child Support Agency, CB Radio (showing my age), the 25p pension increase (or whatever it was) etc. And they were policy issues rather than the behaviour of an individual.* * The niceties of party approval and selection procedures are lost on most people. |
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Post by tonyhill on Apr 13, 2022 20:32:39 GMT
er...LibDem betrayal on student loans anyone?
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Post by markgoodair on Apr 13, 2022 20:48:02 GMT
er...LibDem betrayal on student loans anyone? Not on the same par as sexually molesting a child. |
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Post by greenchristian on Apr 13, 2022 20:53:17 GMT
Never is a very long time. Yes, this scandal is going to hurt them in the seat for several election cycles. But do you really think that a Conservative candidate in 40 years time will be hurt by a scandal that's barely even a memory to most of the electorate, and clearly has absolutely nothing to do with them? I wouldn't even place it at "several" cycles. I can recall numerous cases where there were "I'll never vote xxx again, because of yyy" stramashes which (outside a handful of monomaniacs) were forgotten within a single cycle - the Child Support Agency, CB Radio (showing my age), the 25p pension increase (or whatever it was) etc. And they were policy issues rather than the behaviour of an individual.* * The niceties of party approval and selection procedures are lost on most people. It's very unlikely that it will be a major factor in anybody's voting decision for more than a couple of election cycles. But there will continue to be a minority for whom this scandal gives them a more negative opinion of the Tories for longer than that. In Coventry there is the occasional voter who brings up the dodgier bits of Geoffrey Robinson's business career years after he's retired (and decades after they happened), and it's at least plausible that this scandal will create the same kind of long-term memories among a section of the Wakefield electorate. |
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